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$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

Catawba said:
The current thinking seems to be whichever state is willing to have the stupidist kids wins!
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could you, perhaps, point me to some research that clearly demonstrates a link between teachers pensions and student performance?



it never ceases to amaze me. offer to put into place a system of merit pay based on student performance, and it's SO implausible for the OBVIOUS reason that student performances have NOTHING to do with whether or not their teachers are quality or not....


....but offer to drop teacher compensation, and suddenly there's a VERY Real Immediate One-to-One Ratio DROP in student IQ! :roll:
 
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Catawba said:
I'm sure there will be those that think $56,000 is too much as well
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for salary? starting out? it's above the median wage for the entire workforce. so yea, i would say it probably is a little high.
 
UtahBill said:
compensation is pay, so how can "after pay", be pay?
don't know where you are getting your numbers, but not all states are the same. The state of AZ/Peoria School district didn't contribute one dime to her retirement. They paid her health care insurance but to add family was about $1,000 per MONTH....
Any classes she took for advancement purposes or to enhance skills were also out of her own pocket.
Wisconsin, Illinois, NY, etc. are not representative of the entire USA.
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Sorry, I meant Wisconsin not the entire US.

US numbers you can check yourself. They should be about right. Sweden numbers I got from searching after education wage Sweden. I got the numbers for 2005 with them working an average of 35 hours per week. I just assumed it has increased with about 15-20% the last 5 years. Then I used the tax system, their employers tax, their personal tax, and their 25% GST and some other taxes. It doesn't really matter if I'm somewhat wrong. The American wage is the double of social democratic Sweden.
 
Camlon said:
Sorry, I meant Wisconsin not the entire US.

US numbers you can check yourself...
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What is Wisconsin teacher Salary + Benefits, $60,000 or $100,000?

I check the numbers and find $60,000. The $100,000 figure has no credible source.
 
if you're running with the numbers given above, i might suggest that that may have something to do with the fact that after the spots for "pension" and "health insurance" it reads "$0"
 
The Prof said:
yes, i bought units from fresno pacific university, thru-the-mail education, for 110 dollars each

it cost me 1650 therefore for every block of 15 units that moved me over a column, earning me a raise of about 1500 per year for life

i maxed out, of course, years ago

but i sent a lot of money to fresno pacific

they still mail me their exciting new courses a couple times a year, a lot of bed and breakfast tours in historic sacramento, yosemite, the coast...

i learned to pick the classes (actually, it was the "professors" that were the giveaway) which assigned the least work---motivating high school athletes, walking for health, great women mathematicians, discipline in the classroom...

quite a few others

i could crank out three SEMESTER units easily in an afternoon or two---in front of the tv

make of that what you will

i'd send money to an educational institution, i'd fill out a few dittoes, i'd mail it back

i'd get a nice raise from MY educational institution

i always thought it was kind of a racket

but, hey, that's the INDUSTRY

stay up
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not all teachers have that little game available to them....
 
it's industry wide here in northern california

it's the same for my sister in law in northern arkansas

i know of no district where pay scale is not tied to units

and units, like i said, are really very cheap, at least compared to the payoff
 
whysoserious said:
Are you of the opinion that they make too much money? $50k is too much for our teachers? That is the area that we need to cut to make our country right again?
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There is no need to go here okay. Are you going to trot out the children next? Anyway, I think there is time in there that isn't counted, like teachers taking work home and so forth. Not arguing they shouldn't, but I've never had an issue with how much they make, but with what they teach and their competence.
 
American said:
There is no need to go here okay. Are you going to trot out the children next? Anyway, I think there is time in there that isn't counted, like teachers taking work home and so forth. Not arguing they shouldn't, but I've never had an issue with how much they make, but with what they teach and their competence.
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IF only we could cut the pay of incompetent parents.....
 
cpwill said:
could you, perhaps, point me to some research that clearly demonstrates a link between teachers pensions and student performance?
it never ceases to amaze me. offer to put into place a system of merit pay based on student performance, and it's SO implausible for the OBVIOUS reason that student performances have NOTHING to do with whether or not their teachers are quality or not........but offer to drop teacher compensation, and suddenly there's a VERY Real Immediate One-to-One Ratio DROP in student IQ! :roll:
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Their pensions are higher because they negotiated higher benefits with the taxpayer's representatives in exchange for the lower salaries they have. Their total compensation is no higher than in the private sector for the same education level. By eliminating collective bargaining you are reducing the capability to not only provide a compensation to attract and retain the best and brightest, but you are also committing schools to continued problems of high student to teacher ratios and decreased instruction time.

"the states that actually have lots of teachers in teacher unions tend to be the states that have done the best in terms of academic success in this country. And the states that don't tend to be the worst."
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-crisis-classroom/story?id=11506701&page=1
 
UtahBill said:
IF only we could cut the pay of incompetent parents.....
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We cant do that but we CAN change the rules so that disruptive students are removed from the system...so that an education is seen as a valued and desirable asset that requires work from the student and participation by the parents and the students and teachers that are anxiously engaged in the education process are not punished by those that are not.
 
Catawba said:
Their total compensation is no higher than in the private sector for the same education level.
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"they" work 181 days per year

if you prorate my pay for 11 months work it comes to 95K

PLUS my pension which is 400% of social security

PLUS my tenured status

PLUS the fact that workers in my industry very rarely commute, we live where the kids are

PLUS the block schedule i teach which affords me 100 minutes of prep per day

this year, for instance, i don't start teaching even days until 10:15, and odd days i have a one hundred and thirty five minute gap in the middle of my schedule (which is not necessarily a good thing)

PLUS the fact that the most stress i really have to deal with is some high school girl with attitude

get real

teaching is a great profession, i highly recommend it

we're one of the few industries these days with much measure of job security
 
The Prof said:
"they" work 181 days per year

if you prorate my pay for 11 months work it comes to 95K

PLUS my pension which is 400% of social security

PLUS my tenured status

PLUS the fact that workers in my industry very rarely commute, we live where the kids are

PLUS the block schedule i teach which affords me 100 minutes of prep per day

this year, for instance, i don't start teaching even days until 10:15, and odd days i have a one hundred and thirty five minute gap in the middle of my schedule (which is not necessarily a good thing)

PLUS the fact that the most stress i really have to deal with is some high school girl with attitude

get real

teaching is a great profession, i highly recommend it

we're one of the few industries these days with much measure of job security
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you're a teacher???????? how disconcerting.
 
The Prof said:
"they" work 181 days per year

if you prorate my pay for 11 months work it comes to 95K

PLUS my pension which is 400% of social security

PLUS my tenured status

PLUS the fact that workers in my industry very rarely commute, we live where the kids are

PLUS the block schedule i teach which affords me 100 minutes of prep per day

this year, for instance, i don't start teaching even days until 10:15, and odd days i have a one hundred and thirty five minute gap in the middle of my schedule (which is not necessarily a good thing)

PLUS the fact that the most stress i really have to deal with is some high school girl with attitude

get real

teaching is a great profession, i highly recommend it

we're one of the few industries these days with much measure of job security
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No offense, but you're coming off as a really poor teacher. Do you always take the easiest route? Do you think you're serving your students well by equating prep time to free time? By putting bare minimal effort into attaining continuing education? Don't you have the personal responsibility to take advantage of the opportunities available to you that might make you a better teacher?

Do many of your colleagues share your point of view on these things? How would you characterize the professional demeanor of those you work with every day?
 
GhostlyJoe said:
No offense, but you're coming off as a really poor teacher. Do you always take the easiest route? Do you think you're serving your students well by equating prep time to free time? By putting bare minimal effort into attaining continuing education? Don't you have the personal responsibility to take advantage of the opportunities available to you that might make you a better teacher?

Do many of your colleagues share your point of view on these things? How would you characterize the professional demeanor of those you work with every day?
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How does being honest equate to, 'coming of as a really poor teacher'? Honesty is one of the most important ingredients I know of in the facilitation of the learning process. After all, while you may not admit it, the Prof just taught you something just now regarding teachers in California and you are not even in his/her classroom. Imagine the knowledge you would gain from spending a year in the Prof's classroom?

To the Prof: I would like to thank you for the free education that you just provided me regarding your profession. It surely is refreshing to find an educator willing to think outside the box and not blindly promote the liberal teaching agenda. You are truly an asset to your profession and I would allow you to teach my children any day.

Sincerely yours,
Nevergolfpar
 
GhostlyJoe said:
No offense, but you're coming off as a really poor teacher.
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none taken

my status as a teacher isn't much of an issue outside my district (nor inside it, since you're so interested)

the state of public education, in crying contrast, is

an issue, that is, and coast to coast

stay up
 
Nevergolfpar said:
I would allow you to teach my children any day.
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thank you very much, sir, it would be an honor

in my class, we do MATH

politics is for chatrooms

you understand

take care, cliff
 
The Prof said:
none taken

my status as a teacher isn't much of an issue outside my district (nor inside it, since you're so interested)

the state of public education, in crying contrast, is

an issue, that is, and coast to coast

stay up
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You submit your personal experience as a barometer, and I respect that. My own experiences greatly color my opinions.

For example, I went to a conference a couple years ago in Chicago. My company footed the tuition (a couple hundred bucks a head) and paid mileage. I attended eight classes over a two-day period, and it was interesting. I learned quite a bit. A small group among us played hooky and day two and instead explored the city -- understandable, as all of us from out of town felt the draw.

My point is that some of us chose to use our comapny's resources to their fullest. Others didn't. What we got out of that opportunity was dependent greatly on our individual attitudes and motivations.

I'm wondering whether you believe your experience is typical and whether many of your colleagues use the opportunities available to them differently than you might choose to.

Of course, you may be a brilliant classroom teacher. I have no way of knowing from this end of the intertube.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
I'm wondering whether you believe your experience is typical
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as common as the coin of the realm, friend

"where are you on the schedule," "you need to move over," "if you do it later instead of now you're throwing money away," "max out as soon as you can," "try fresno pacific..."

that's the industry

hey, they MADE me take clad, i had to work for those, probably 12 hours of note taking for every 3 semester units

didn't translate to effective teaching, most of us would say

but esl's need their sdaie, y'know

it's the standard

bics transfer but calps don't

of course, the state has moved off clad by now

typical

stay up
 
The Prof said:
thank you very much, sir, it would be an honor

in my class, we do MATH

politics is for chatrooms

you understand

take care, cliff
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Math!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally a classroom in America that stresses math (I hope science is being taught in the room next to yours) and does not cover politics. Politics should be a matter of self-discovery as opposed to a matter of indoctrination. To many school districts across America attempt to indoctrinate as opposed to teach and that is another problematic variable explaining the continuing decline of our educational system as a whole.
 
Catawba said:
Their pensions are higher because they negotiated higher benefits with the taxpayer's representatives in exchange for the lower salaries they have. Their total compensation is no higher than in the private sector for the same education level. By eliminating collective bargaining you are reducing the capability to not only provide a compensation to attract and retain the best and brightest, but you are also committing schools to continued problems of high student to teacher ratios and decreased instruction time.

"the states that actually have lots of teachers in teacher unions tend to be the states that have done the best in terms of academic success in this country. And the states that don't tend to be the worst."
'This Week' Transcript: Crisis in the Classroom - ABC News
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Well naturally, everyone does better when unions are around, the kids, the teachers, the public....it's a beautiful thing.
 
The Prof said:
as common as the coin of the realm, friend

"where are you on the schedule," "you need to move over," "if you do it later instead of now you're throwing money away," "max out as soon as you can," "try fresno pacific..."

that's the industry

hey, they MADE me take clad, i had to work for those, probably 12 hours of note taking for every 3 semester units

didn't translate to effective teaching, most of us would say

but esl's need their sdaie, y'know

it's the standard

bics transfer but calps don't

of course, the state has moved off clad by now

typical

stay up
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A lot of that jargon is lost on me. Do your colleagues generally support teachers unions? And how much do you think a school teacher be paid relative to education level?
 
American said:
Well naturally, everyone does better when unions are around, the kids, the teachers, the public....it's a beautiful thing.
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But better to go with whichever state is willing to have the stupidest kids wins, right?
 
UtahBill said:
compensation is pay, so how can "after pay", be pay?
don't know where you are getting your numbers, but not all states are the same. The state of AZ/Peoria School district didn't contribute one dime to her retirement. They paid her health care insurance but to add family was about $1,000 per MONTH....
Any classes she took for advancement purposes or to enhance skills were also out of her own pocket.
Wisconsin, Illinois, NY, etc. are not representative of the entire USA.
Click to expand...

:prof
$59,000 is pay. After pay / compensation is about $101,000 that includes benefits.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Do your colleagues generally support teachers unions?
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yes, school teachers are overwhelmingly liberal here in northern california

i have been apprised all my long career that the portion of my dues devoted to politcal action can be returned to me upon my writing of a letter

i and virtually every conservative i've taught with (there have been a decent number) have felt it best for our careers not to go that route

i've never known a teacher to ask for his or her political dues to be returned

And how much do you think a school teacher be paid relative to education level?
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significantly less than we get now

but i aint giving any of it back, call me what you will
 
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