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$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

The Giant Noodle said:
Your logic on this makes no sense at all.
Now if the unions actually CARED about those kids (which they dont) then they wouldnt be asking for a HUGE amount of money. See if they were getting paid $27K a year ($25 an hour) then we could hire more teachers to better teach the children.... and there are people that would LOVE to have that kind of job being a teacher.

See! Its easy :)
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Despite the fact that teachers are more dedicated to their job (as a sense of title) than usual workers, it does not mean you could give incentive for more to join their position by lowering salaries. That is why many I know simply wouldn't bother.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Your logic on this makes no sense at all.
Now if the unions actually CARED about those kids (which they dont) then they wouldnt be asking for a HUGE amount of money. See if they were getting paid $27K a year ($25 an hour) then we could hire more teachers to better teach the children.... and there are people that would LOVE to have that kind of job being a teacher. See! Its easy :)
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It is only easy when you make things up to support your wrong ideas. If these people would love to be a teacher, why aren't they getting degrees and applying for the jobs in greater numbers?
There are standards to be met, govt standards. We can't let just any unwashed ignorant person off the street into our classrooms.
Try it, you'll see....
 
MaggieD said:
A Google away . . .



The Hidden Cost of Tenure
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Well, hell, if you are going to say that ALL teachers are in Illinois, OK, I have to agree with you.....
Everybody knows Illinois has a lot of corruption, doesn't scale up to the whole country, tho.

Bedtime for me, I will return at a later time to attempt to teach the unteachable. Until then, CC is in charge.
 
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MaggieD said:
Another Google away . . .
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Wouldn't want you to just think it was Illinois:

In Wayzata, a teacher kept his job despite extensive allegations that he spent most of his class time surfing the Internet.

In Minneapolis, the district paid a teacher $35,000 to resign, rather than try to fire her.

In the Anoka-Hennepin School District, the state's largest, officials can't remember the last time they fired a veteran teacher for incompetence.

As the debate about teacher quality intensifies in Minnesota, a Star Tribune investigation has found that bad teachers in the state hardly ever get fired. Rather than endure an expensive and contentious dismissal process, school districts instead turn to a patchwork of other methods to try to remove low-performing teachers. Those include paying them off or "counseling them out."
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State's bad teachers rarely get fired | StarTribune.com
 
UtahBill said:
Well, hell, if you are going to say that ALL teachers are in Illinois, OK, I have to agree with you.....
Everybody knows Illinois has a lot of corruption, doesn't scale up to the whole country, tho.

Bedtime for me, I will return at a later time to attempt to teach the unteachable. Until then, CC is in charge.
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Sounds like a failed educator to me . . . :rofl :rofl
 
UtahBill said:
Well, hell, if you are going to say that ALL teachers are in Illinois, OK, I have to agree with you.....
Everybody knows Illinois has a lot of corruption, doesn't scale up to the whole country, tho.

Bedtime for me, I will return at a later time to attempt to teach the unteachable. Until then, CC is in charge.
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Gotta head home from work. Until I log back on, later... Noodle is in charge.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
The Giant Noodle said:
They should be getting paid what teachers do if not a tad more. They deserve it.
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SR enlisted with 20+ years in are getting paid roughly comparable amounts. Base Pay for an E8 at 20 years is $4568 a month, with a monthly allowance for housing (assuming dependents and living in Milwaulkee) of an additional $1320. BAS (basic allowance for sustinance; what the military pays you to feed your family) would be another $323. So a pre-tax income of about $74,300 per anum. Add in subsidized health and life insurance (we pay, but it's very little - maybe 3%), and other miscelaneous items (you don't have to pay for glasses, when you deploy you make danger pay, force seperation allowance, etc), and I could see it being about-ish the same.

not that I don't agree that Teachers' salaries are out of whack; the AVERAGE teacher making a comparable income as the narrow amount of our TOP enlisted personnel isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison
 
cpwill said:
SR enlisted with 20+ years in are getting paid roughly comparable amounts. Base Pay for an E8 at 20 years is $4568 a month, with a monthly allowance for housing (assuming dependents and living in Milwaulkee) of an additional $1320. BAS (basic allowance for sustinance; what the military pays you to feed your family) would be another $323. So a pre-tax income of about $74,300 per anum. Add in subsidized health and life insurance (we pay, but it's very little - maybe 3%), and other miscelaneous items (you don't have to pay for glasses, when you deploy you make danger pay, force seperation allowance, etc), and I could see it being about-ish the same.

not that I don't agree that Teachers' salaries are out of whack; the AVERAGE teacher making a comparable income as the narrow amount of our TOP enlisted personnel isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison
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you only pay 3% toward your health and life iinsurance?YOUR SCREWING THE TAXPAYER!! CADILLAC BENEFITS!!! ok, rant over:mrgreen: if you stay in 20yrs, you deserve it.
 
Yeah, Noodle, I would absolutely love to see how long you would last in a teaching job. As someone who grew up with a father who taught (though he no longer teaches, it was one of his many jobs), the claim that any schmo off the street could do it is completely nuts.

Not only is an in-depth knowledge of a variety of fields required, some knowledge of psychology comes into play. If your friend thinks it's a cushy job, he's probably a bad teacher.

Also, the time they spend working vs. the amount of time they spend at the school is in no way comparable unless they have nothing even vaguely resembling a lesson plan.

When we start paying our teachers salaries that you can earn at Best Buy or Target, we'll start getting the same quality we expect from the people working there. Not to mention, I know plenty of teachers (my roommate's BF is currently working to become one) and not a single one is motivated by the pay.
 
MaggieD said:
Sounds like a failed educator to me . . . :rofl :rofl
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Aiming high and falling short is not failing. Aiming low and hitting the mark is not success.
The same educators who taught me also taught my younger brother and older sister. Their poor education is not their fault. They succeeded with me, but I am smarter than my siblings. I didn't fail 3rd grade, fractions weren't hard for me, and I liked to read. School was easy for me.
Any teacher I had was a good teacher, because I didn't have learning disabilities, but I did have a good attitude towards learning.
My sibling's teachers were poor teachers, because my siblings didn't learn.
Funny part of that is, they were the SAME teachers....
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Gotta head home from work. Until I log back on, later... Noodle is in charge.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
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Hopefully he will sleep thru the night not knowing he is in charge. No telling what kind of damage he might do.:2razz:
 
megaprogman said:
Teaching a group requires a different skillset over teaching one on one.



As with Noodle, I would dare you try give it a try before making such claims.
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What skill set would that be? The ability to communicate in a clear and effective manner? A complete understanding of the subject matter being taught? What exactly is so different about teaching a person one on one verses teaching a group? Then again if that skill set is the payment of regular weekly union dues...you're right, I do not have such a skill set.

Give me an opportunity and I swear to you I would succeed.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The skillset required to be a teacher over time is different than the skillset require to teach someone something.
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Huh? Are you kidding me? From what you are stating, the three years my boss has spent grooming me is more akin to teaching than a class of students who are with any given teacher for a period of only 8 months. So if time is the important ingredient to qualify one as a 'teacher' then I suppose the teachers of America are not in fact teachers? Is that what you are saying?
 
Nevergolfpar said:
What skill set would that be? The ability to communicate in a clear and effective manner? A complete understanding of the subject matter being taught? What exactly is so different about teaching a person one on one verses teaching a group? Then again if that skill set is the payment of regular weekly union dues...you're right, I do not have such a skill set.

Give me an opportunity and I swear to you I would succeed.
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Like most of us, you already have all the opportunities you need...pick one and go forth....
 
The Giant Noodle said:
ALright man...... teachers hardly do any work. They are there for SIX hours a day! Thats 30 hours a WEEK! They are off around 2 days a month for whatever lame holiday comes around. Then they have THREE MONTHS OFF!!! Their job is EASY! At least 3 out of 10 people could walk in and do their job with ZERO training.
You know why its hard to get a teachers position? Because everyone and their cousin wants to be one! So they made it more difficult in Illinois to qualify. My friend Rob is a teacher. He used to be a retail book store manager. He said that was TWICE as difficult.

Lets not even get into how difficult it is to fire a crappy teacher! Or their INSANE pensions! Beginning teachers should make no more than $27K a year and after ten years make no more than $37K a year. Now divide that salary by NINE...... NOT 12 since they only work 9 months. Plus they need to pay 20% of their benefits.
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You clearly dont know what teachers do..

Also teachers are the cornerstone of our societies as they teach our children.

Now, people like bankers who get FAR FAR more in bonus even for failure... why you not whining about them? They after all caused the financial ****hole you are in now. I bet that even if you combined every freaking teachers wage and benefit in the US, you would still not meet the bonus for failure that just one of the major banks gives out every year.

This fake outrage against teachers and union members by the right is getting more and more pathetic... targeting the glue of society just because they usually support the opposition.

It is so funny to watch the same talking heads from the right on Fox and other stations, rambling on about unions and teachers and yet defending bankers and the like... talk about being hypocrites.
 
UtahBill said:
When a school turns out college ready students, the teachers are doing their jobs.... The material is being presented. Don't blame teachers for lazy students and uncaring parents..
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Actually UtahBill there is a lot of truth to what you say about the students being lazy and parents uncaring. In fact, I agree with you whole heartily. When you boil this issue down to its most rudimentary element the sad state of America's educational system is indeed due to the lack of parenting. We all can go on for years debating education in America and you cut to the chase with your very poignant post. Well done! Though I would vehemently disagree with you that are schools are turning out 'college ready students'.

However, your post does actually highlight the lunacy of those who advocate for large teacher salaries. After all, if this is a parenting issue, then why the hell are we paying $101,000 per year for people to teach our children? If the children are lazy and the parents don't care, no amount of money we pay our teachers will ever solve the problem. So I ask why throw good money after bad? Why not pay the teachers the same salary we pay our baby sitters? Are they not both doing the same job?
 
UtahBill said:
Like most of us, you already have all the opportunities you need...pick one and go forth....
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Maybe so. The opportunities I have had in my life are all of my own making. I have clearly chosen the path I am currently on--both the good and the bad. However, that does not mean that should I venture down another path, I would not be equally as successful. My guess is you are similar to me in that regard. However, that still does not mean that either of us are not qualified to teach or do anything else in life.
 
randel said:
you only pay 3% toward your health and life iinsurance?YOUR SCREWING THE TAXPAYER!! CADILLAC BENEFITS!!!
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we're both getting screwed. the government health insurance (Tricare) that I am forced to purchase is atrocious. i would MUCH rather simply take (say, 2/3rds; but i would take a half) of the money they are spending on my family insurance plan into the market and purchase an HSA / hgh deductible plan.

ok, rant over:mrgreen: if you stay in 20yrs, you deserve it.
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ah, but if i were just allowed to pursue the plan outlined above we would both be better off.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher | The Weekly Standard
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First, it's actually $59,500 in salary. The rest is in "benefits" which the article refuses to define. That's like me paying $50 for cable which advertises "benefits" of 100 channels, but I'm only interested in 20 of them because the rest are crap like the Home Shopping Network. What are these $41,591 in benefits the teachers have?

Second, a quote from JFK: “Children are the world's most valuable resource and its best hope for the future”

Do we really want to go to the lowest bidder with our most valuable resource?
 
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Nevergolfpar said:
Actually UtahBill there is a lot of truth to what you say about the students being lazy and parents uncaring. In fact, I agree with you whole heartily. When you boil this issue down to its most rudimentary element the sad state of America's educational system is indeed due to the lack of parenting. We all can go on for years debating education in America and you cut to the chase with your very poignant post. Well done! Though I would vehemently disagree with you that are schools are turning out 'college ready students'.

However, your post does actually highlight the lunacy of those who advocate for large teacher salaries. After all, if this is a parenting issue, then why the hell are we paying $101,000 per year for people to teach our children? If the children are lazy and the parents don't care, no amount of money we pay our teachers will ever solve the problem. So I ask why throw good money after bad? Why not pay the teachers the same salary we pay our baby sitters? Are they not both doing the same job?
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Multiply 30 kids times what a baby sitter gets per hour....the baby sitter gets more.
Day care, average per month, is $600 for a toddler, so one link says. 30x600 is $18,000 per month......
Teachers should all quit teaching at schools and open day care centers, that teach.
 
the last few decades have seen teacher compensation soar and student scores plummit. I'm thinking I would like to see your evidence that there is that strong a correlation between the two at this point.
 
cpwill said:
the last few decades have seen teacher compensation soar and student scores plummit. I'm thinking I would like to see your evidence that there is that strong a correlation between the two at this point.
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And I would like to see your data supporting both of your claims as well.
 
Nevergolfpar said:
Maybe so. The opportunities I have had in my life are all of my own making. I have clearly chosen the path I am currently on--both the good and the bad. However, that does not mean that should I venture down another path, I would not be equally as successful. My guess is you are similar to me in that regard. However, that still does not mean that either of us are not qualified to teach or do anything else in life.
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All your own making? Maybe not...did your parents insist you do your homework and get good grades? Did they support you in any way while you went to college? Good parents are the start. You have to have a license to cut hair but not to make babies. If only good parents had babies, we would be better off.
The one thing I had going for me at age 18 was that I knew for sure that I was on my own.....except for my rich Uncle Sam who let me join his navy, paid me a small stipend plus room and board to attend his technical schools, and then let me serve for 12 years to get experience on the job.
I didn't get good grades in high school, but did in military schools. The methods used by military instructors are better than most public schools....no fluff, no assemblies, no field trips, just goals to meet every few weeks. Step by step, you follow the plan and months later, you have been paid to learned a skill that privately owned tech schools would have charged you a fortune for.
 
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