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$101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

The Giant Noodle said:
Which is a WHOPPING 30 hours a week..... nine months a year. They dont deserve a penny more than $27K a year. Dude! Thats TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS AN HOUR!!! Thats MORE than enough! If they worked like a normal person ....... 40 hours a week...... 12 months a year they would make $48K a year at that wage! And that is at my $27K amount! These people are making $60 a freakin HOUR!!! How in the HELL can you say they deserve that!?!?!? Working in retail is twice as difficult (according to my friend who is a teacher)
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Scream all you like, Noodle. You are still making no sense. Teachers, according to your figures, make $59,000 per year. Their benefits, including healthcare, sick/personal time, pensions, and costs to their employer manage the rest. I would say this is appropriate.
 
Kandahar said:
Right, that's my point. The real cost of a teacher is about $130K per twelve months of services rendered.
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WRONG!!!!! (sorta) Using their current $100K a year w/ benefits...... if they worked an honerable days work (8 hours minimum) and worked 12 full moths...... it would cost the tax payers $177,778 a year to employee EACH teacher!!!!!
This is INSANE!!!! State unions should have ZERO bargining power. In fact there shouldnt be any state unions!
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Again, this is nothing but your unsubstantiated opinion. Teachers jobs have a lot of difficulty to them. Understanding the topic, understanding how to teach the topic, understanding how to teach the topic in a variety of ways to a variety of different learning styles, understanding how to manage a classroom, how to manage difficult kids, how to keep kids focused/interested, etc... You have no idea what it is like to be a teacher.
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No! All you have to do is just go in and write stuff on the chalk board and the kids will magically pay attention and care! Its so easy!

Also, has anyone else noticed that Noodle has not paid any attention to any of the facts presented to him?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Scream all you like, Noodle. You are still making no sense. Teachers, according to your figures, make $59,000 per year. Their benefits, including healthcare, sick/personal time, pensions, and costs to their employer manage the rest. I would say this is appropriate.
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Look here CC..... Im a freakin sage. Listen to me and become just not a pillar in your community but a man that will become more "whole".
 
Kandahar said:
Except there's a problem with this reasoning:
None of those skills are actually required to either find or keep a teaching job. In fact, no skills of any kind are typically required, other than having a piece of paper saying you have a degree in Education. In some cities, even regular attendance at work isn't required to keep a teaching job.
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That is not accurate, at least where I live. You need to have been taught proven to have all these skills either through college/student teaching (usually at least a year's worth) or, through the alternate program, a year's worth of constant supervision plus classwork in these areas. You don't cut it, tenure doesn't kick in for 3 years, you are gone. So, no, you are wrong.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Look here CC..... Im a freakin sage. Listen to me and become just not a pillar in your community but a man that will become more "whole".
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Firstly, you are no sage. Look at your title. You are a mere guru. Secondly, I am the master of all Jedi. That trumps your position. :2razz:
 
Why is this a discussion of how much teachers are worth, when it should be a discussion about how much we can afford to pay them?
 
megaprogman said:
No! All you have to do is just go in and write stuff on the chalk board and the kids will magically pay attention and care! Its so easy!

Also, has anyone else noticed that Noodle has not paid any attention to any of the facts presented to him?
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Last year, right around this same time, Noodle yelled and screamed about teachers, too. Didn't listen to anything anyone said then, either.
 
megaprogman said:
No! All you have to do is just go in and write stuff on the chalk board and the kids will magically pay attention and care! Its so easy!

Also, has anyone else noticed that Noodle has not paid any attention to any of the facts presented to him?
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Youre right man..... obviously I cant TEACH you anything. Im here giving you hardcore FACTS. My facts are taken directly from the article! How can you dispute that!?!? I know what teachers do.... THEY tell me what they do.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Why is this a discussion of how much teachers are worth, when it should be a discussion about how much we can afford to pay them?
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THERE you go folks! A man that understands! I would say pay EVERYONE a billion dollars IF...IFFFFFFFFFF we could afford it!!!

Excellent job GI :bravo::good_job:
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Youre right man..... obviously I cant TEACH you anything. Im here giving you hardcore FACTS. My facts are taken directly from the article! How can you dispute that!?!? I know what teachers do.... THEY tell me what they do.
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Saying you can do it is one thing. However, I will believe you if you actually go do it. Otherwise, you are not speaking from experience (except for perhaps your great experience at using the capslock key), which lessens your credibility.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
THERE you go folks! A man that understands! I would say pay EVERYONE a billion dollars IF...IFFFFFFFFFF we could afford it!!!

Excellent job GI :bravo::good_job:
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Why would you do that if they are not worth it?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That is not accurate, at least where I live. You need to have been taught proven to have all these skills either through college/student teaching (usually at least a year's worth) or, through the alternate program, a year's worth of constant supervision plus classwork in these areas.
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But even for these things, as long as you put in the hours you usually get a rubber-stamp approval from the school saying that you're qualified based on your student teaching experience. If this was not the case, then there wouldn't be so many bad teachers in the first place. Schools are very conflict-averse.

CaptainCourtesy said:
You don't cut it, tenure doesn't kick in for 3 years, you are gone. So, no, you are wrong.
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In many places, tenure is a mere formality. Some teachers essentially have lifetime job security from the first day they walked into the classroom.
 
Kandahar said:
No, but it should have plenty to do with their compensation. As long as there exists a volume of qualified teachers, they should NOT command such high salaries. Simple supply and demand.
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Should. I disagree. They SHOULD based on their job importance.



Saying you oppose merit pay and total job security is one thing...but the fact is that it exists right now. Well let's get those problems straightened out before we pay out $100K for nine months of services (or for more accurate comparison with other employees, $130K for twelve months of services). Otherwise, we're just paying huge salaries for a position that requires minimal qualifications, has near-total job security, and has a surplus of workers willing and able to do it.

Maybe THEN we can talk about paying teachers more to recruit more capable teachers.
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Nah, I'm OK with working it out as we stand right now. It needs to be worked out, for sure, though.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, you are no sage. Look at your title. You are a mere guru. Secondly, I am the master of all Jedi. That trumps your position. :2razz:
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Hmmmmmmmm........ :?

•The Jedi are characters in the fictional Star Wars universe and the series' main protagonists. They use a quasi-telekinetic power, known as the Force, weapons known as lightsabers, which emit a controlled energy flow in the shape of a sword, to serve and protect their Republic and the whole ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Ohhhh GEEEEEE.... thats so HARD. They have to buy paper n' stuff!?!? And they have to expand their SIX HOUR work day sometimes!?!? Awwwwww :( BOO FREAKIN' HOOOOO!!!!!! Especially when they are getting paid almost a $100 an HOUR with their pay and benefits!!! Tax payers are getting robbed!
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paper, other supplies....in poorer districts, some teachers can spend several thousand dollars of their own money to make their classrooms function...lesson planning, grading papers, continuing education for them....a wee bit more than 6 hours a day....
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Should. I disagree. They SHOULD based on their job importance.
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If there are other qualified people willing to do the job for less, why would you pay more than you have to? The money saved could be used to hire MORE teachers.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Nah, I'm OK with working it out as we stand right now. It needs to be worked out, for sure, though.
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A. Having high compensation for teachers and demanding high standards from them
B. Having high compensation for teachers while saying that we should demand high standards from them
C. Having high compensation for teachers while allowing mediocrity

A & B are not at all the same. B & C are essentially identical in terms of the economics of teacher compensation. There is absolutely no reason to pay such high wages for these positions as long as they require virtually nothing of the employee. If eventually we get to a place where our teachers have merit-based compensation and we need to recruit more qualified teachers...maybe THEN I'll support high wages for them. But we're years away from that happening.
 
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randel said:
paper, other supplies....in poorer districts, some teachers can spend several thousand dollars of their own money to make their classrooms function...lesson planning, grading papers, continuing education for them....a wee bit more than 6 hours a day....
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Did you miss that part that they get paid around $60 an hour w/ benefits????
Did you miss the part where even the Mayor of Chicago.... the man that cares VERY much about education for kids..... knows and said they work only 6 hours a day??? If not then here: U.S. a "Country of Whiners," Daley Whines - Chicagoist

And I agree 100% with Daley! Teachers / State Unions are whinners!
 
megaprogman said:
Saying you can do it is one thing. However, I will believe you if you actually go do it. Otherwise, you are not speaking from experience (except for perhaps your great experience at using the capslock key), which lessens your credibility.
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Using the CAPS LOCK key is more efficient than going back and highlighting a word to empasize it! See..... you lost that argument too!!!! :poke:giggle:
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Hey like I said, why NOT give EVERYONE a billion dollars!??! You stingy or something???
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No, I am just trying to show that wages are determined by two competing interests. The empoyee would love to be paid millions and the employer would love it if you would work for free. Ultimitely a fair wage is one that both would accept.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Using the CAPS LOCK key is more efficient than going back and highlighting a word to empasize it! See..... you lost that argument too!!!! :poke:giggle:
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Noodle, I like you, you are a very entertaining guy :mrgreen:

However, the point is, people who play too much with formatting are often masking poor arguments, as we have seen in this thread.

For example, you listed a 60/hr rate and then pointed to a website to prove (chicagoist) and I looked and it wasn't there. Of course, there was that other claim where they made 92/hr a few pages back ... And don't forget the fact that you are claiming you can do a job that you have never done and have had no experience doing, which means you have no way of grasping the hidden complexities of a job. Lastly, your calculations were wrong about working hours because you left off a lot of stuff. Seems you are batting 0 so far.
 
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The Giant Noodle said:
I know EXACTLY what a teacher does. I could walk into a school and have little problem on the first day doing what they do..... and thats with zero training. My good friend is a teacher.... I dated two teachers. What they do is EASY! Even my friend said "its a cake walk"!!!!
So YOU sir can not tell me otherwise!!!
Sure their job is important..... a truck drivers job is VERY important. A guy that plow the road when it snows.... THAT job is very important. A salesmans job is very important! A soildiers job is VERY important.

Your view of teachers is WRONG!!!!! Wrong wrong wrong!!!!
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This rant here reminds me of a scenario played out quite a few times in various cartoons, movies, shows.

Husband is sitting at the dinner table telling his wife how she's got it SOOO easy and that he wished that he had her job. Just sit around the house all day, watching soap operas or reading Cosmo. So wife challenges him to a bet. She will do his chores and he has to do her chores for one week. One the very first day the husband gets a list of things that the woman does. He says "piece of cake!" By the end of the day the guy is practically crying. lol

Moral of the story....Don't say something is easy until YOU have done it.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Youre right man..... obviously I cant TEACH you anything. Im here giving you hardcore FACTS. My facts are taken directly from the article! How can you dispute that!?!? I know what teachers do.... THEY tell me what they do.
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The way that you are posting this "information" (which, btw, you have not presented except to quote salaries and scream) demonstrates that you cannot teach, Noodle. Here's an example of Noodle's teaching style:

Noodle: OK, kids, we are going to discuss how teachers are overpaid.
Student: But Mr. Noodle, aren't teachers important?
Noodle: NO!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. TEACHERS DO NOTHING.
Student: But Mr. Noodle, doesn't that mean that you aren't really doing anything?
Noodle: THAT'S RIGHT!!! AND I DESERVE FAR LESS COMPENSATION FOR THE LITTLE THAT I AM DOING, TOO.
Student: Ok, Mr. Noodle, can you explain why you have this job?
Noodle: TO PROVE HOW INCOMPETANT TEACHERS ARE AND HOW ANYONE CAN DO THEIR JOB.
Student: Are you saying that you are incompentant?
Noodle: GET OUT OF MY CLASSROOM YOU LITTLE ****!!! HOW DARE YOU CONFRONT ME ON LOGIC. IN FACT, ALL OF YOU GET OUT!!!
Student: But Mr. Noodle... what about the rest of class?
Noodle: SHUT UP!!! I'M NOT LISTENING. LALALALALALA.

Principal: Ummm... Mr Noodle... why did you send your entire class to my office?
Noodle: They DARED to disagree with me and confront me on logic.
Principal: Ummm... students will do that at times. You might want to figure out how to encourage them to explore different ideas.
Noodle: IF THEIR IDEAS ARE NOT MINE, THEIR IDEAS ARE WRONG!!!

No Noodle, I don't think you could teach.
 
Kal'Stang said:
This rant here reminds me of a scenario played out quite a few times in various cartoons, movies, shows.

Husband is sitting at the dinner table telling his wife how she's got it SOOO easy and that he wished that he had her job. Just sit around the house all day, watching soap operas or reading Cosmo. So wife challenges him to a bet. She will do his chores and he has to do her chores for one week. One the very first day the husband gets a list of things that the woman does. He says "piece of cake!" By the end of the day the guy is practically crying. lol

Moral of the story....Don't say something is easy until YOU have done it.
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I think that movie comes out at least once a decade, just under a new name.
 
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