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Thread: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

  1. #161
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I wouldn't doubt that student performance has dropped in some areas, or that teacher compensation has risen (you first said soared, backing off?). Teachers get raises each year, if the money is in the budget, just like workers in other jobs.
    actually teacher pay raises are often mandated in their contract. it's all seniority, after all.

    Student performance is NOT a function of poor teaching as much as it is poor parenting and lazy students. If they spent as much time studying as they do listening to crap music and watching crap TV, they might do better.
    true.





    and this all raises a good point; why should we suspect that higher pay is linked to student performance, since the Unions thus far have successfully defeated every effort to link pay to performance?

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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    or crap is all he knows....
    a friend with an engineering degree went back to school to become a teacher. She didn't last long. She caught students teaching, and the parents had a fit when she failed them on the test. The school did not back her up, and she quit.
    The high school in a small town in Idaho where we lived for a while had an honor roll and a high honor roll. Only the best made the high honor roll, practically the rest of the student body made the honor roll, even if they couldn't spell, punctuate, construct a sentence or paragraph properly, etc.
    Sad, isn't it? The United States of America is turning into the Liability nation where everyone is afraid of being sued.

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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no thanks. i'm tired of doing endless research for you only to have you pretend it doesn't exist. i think i'll go with your strategy here and leave this a just-so argument.


    over the past couple of decades, teacher compensation has risen while student scores have dropped [/just-so]
    Bound to be true somewhere....not true elsewhere.....
    Expectations seem to have been lowered, and I can see part of it. when you go for 40 years working and never once used the trig, geometry, english literature, etc. that you were forced to learn, it makes sense to want the curriculum changed to better reflect modern times. But if the districts won't change the course material, you compensate by making it easier to get good grades in the useless subjects so the kids can move on....
    I have been an electronics tech and reactor operator, and outside of the classroom, I have never used any math higher than basic algebra. I know engineers who have never used calculus, once on the job.
    Times have changed, dramatically, but schools are slow to catch on to that fact.
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no thanks. i'm tired of doing endless research for you only to have you pretend it doesn't exist. i think i'll go with your strategy here and leave this a just-so argument.


    over the past couple of decades, teacher compensation has risen while student scores have dropped [/just-so]
    I am not surprised that you cannot back up your claim with facts and evidence. Its probably unfair to ask you to find proof which does not exist.

    You should learn a lesson from your posts on the teachers union buying and owning the negotiators across the table form them and my insistence on actual real world evidence proving that they have done this. I want evidence which proves the claim. If you tell me that somebody had sex with somebody else, its not enough to show me the guy picking her up at her door, the couple dining at a nice restaurant, the two dancing at a club, and he going into her place for a late night cup of coffee. Sorry, but all that shows is those things and nothing more.

    I think that is fair and that is the way evidence works. If you have a smoking gun - show it.

    I would love to work in the infamous Johnnie Cochran glove line ..... but will leave that for another time.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-06-11 at 12:10 PM.
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    information from Maggie

    Excellent evidence which shows that administrators are doing a woefully sad job of performing their own duties. But your outrage and ire is directed to teachers and not to school administrators (who are NOT unionized by the way) who are responsible for holding teachers accountable.

    Amazing. Simply amazing.
    First, the problem is tenure and the hoop-jumping districts have to do to get rid of bad teachers. And you know it. Second, may I see a link that Administrators are not members of a union? Bet I can't.

    Unions of the AFL-CIO

    Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) | Contact info | Website
    Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) | Contact info | Website
    American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) | Contact info | Website
    American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) | Contact info | Website
    American Federation of School Administrators (AFSA) | Contact info | Website
    Etc. Etc. Etc.
    http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/unions/index.cfm
    Last edited by MaggieD; 03-06-11 at 12:07 PM.
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually teacher pay raises are often mandated in their contract. it's all seniority, after all.



    true.





    and this all raises a good point; why should we suspect that higher pay is linked to student performance, since the Unions thus far have successfully defeated every effort to link pay to performance?
    a teacher with well motivated students will likely do much better than a teacher with poorly motivated students. The raw material comes at you as it is, not as you wish. If teachers could kick the worst students out of their classrooms, the parents would take notice.
    The worst in some areas end up in schools of last resort, hopefully at the parents expense.
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    I come from one of the best public school districts in the country...it's really hard for me to read Noodle's claims that all teachers have to do is walk in and write stuff on the chalkboard in order to do their job. This simply isn't the case. We have a teacher SHORTAGE in this country, not a surplus. That should tell you something.

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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    a teacher with well motivated students will likely do much better than a teacher with poorly motivated students. The raw material comes at you as it is, not as you wish. If teachers could kick the worst students out of their classrooms, the parents would take notice.
    The worst in some areas end up in schools of last resort, hopefully at the parents expense.
    Kicking out the worst students is not the answer. Can't think of a better place for "worst students" than the classroom. The problem is kids with behavioral problems. And why can't they be kicked out of the classroom? Can you say, "Follow the money?"
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    First, the problem is tenure and the hoop-jumping districts have to do to get rid of bad teachers. And you know it. Second, may I see a link that Administrators are not members of a union? Bet I can't.



    Unions of the AFL-CIO
    Maggie--- sorry - but I do not know it. I was a teachers union building representative and union official for over 20 years and saw many teachers drummed out and fired for good cause. Its simply a matter of a bad teacher, a good administrator who knows how to perform their job function, and following the contract which exists between the Board and the Union. Some administrators may have their own professional organization, but I assure you, they are not in the teachers union nor are they represented by the same bargaining unit. Its a basic and serious conflict of interest.

    A link which shows that Administrators are NOT a member of the teachers union? You are asking me to prove a negative? Amazing. Go to any teachers contract with any Board of Education you want to read. Your choice. Tell me if you can find that school administrators are members of the union. Its a contradiction in terms.

    You have really outdone yourself on this demand. Normally you are quite reasonable. But this..... well Maggie ... this is rather silly.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-06-11 at 12:14 PM.
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    Re: $101,091: Annual Compensation for Average Milwaukee Teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Kicking out the worst students is not the answer. Can't think of a better place for "worst students" than the classroom. The problem is kids with behavioral problems. And why can't they be kicked out of the classroom? Can you say, "Follow the money?"
    when I said worst students, I didn't mean those with the worst grades....but the worst attitudes ( not well motivated)...the problem makers, the ones who can't get along with other students, etc.
    Last edited by UtahBill; 03-06-11 at 12:17 PM.
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