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Thread: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You tell me I look ignorant on this but you and others have not presented any actual contractual violation supported with the contract langauge.
    Again, the NJ code of ethics states that an employee may act in such a way that suggests that the employee may make actions that violate the trust of the public.

    A legitimate argument can be made that LYING to your supervisor and fraudulently accepting public money are actions that suggest an employee may take actions that violate the publics trust since those are actions that violate the publics trust.

    You may not AGREE with that reasoning, but to state that there is not at least a reasonable argument to be made there that a violation was present is ridiculous and patently false. As is claiming that I've not provided anything backing up my point...but then again, making illogical, ridiculous, factually incorrect statements is appearing to be your forte in this thread.

    They lied to their supervisor and took public money in a fraudulent manner...there's absolutely no way you can possibly suggest that can not at least be ARGUED to be actions that suggset the employee will act in ways that violate the public trust.

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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    you want me to prove a negative?

    We need to see just what the contract language is on the matter. And then there is how the language has been routinely enforced during its existence that will come into play also.
    Ah, yes!! There comes the usual goal post move.

    If someone does go to the trouble to research, spends a significant amount of time posting a link, then we have.....wait for it!!!! "Well, we have to see how it's been routinely enforced." That right there, that goal post move, is egzkly why you may have gotten your last link from me. Actually, my posting a link for you at all centers around whether or not you've made any kind of significant point that I'd like to refute for the benefit of others. You have proven time again that you can't say, "Well, I might be wrong there." You just keep moving the goalposts.

    Anyone on DP who isn't prepared to prove someone else wrong will just stand around saying, "Prove it! Prove it! Prove it!" Just like a little boy in the playground.
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Poor haymarket, still thinking that them being discipliend is somehow a court case.

    If they were wrongfully terminated or suspended, I'm sure they'll be able to present the arguments in court since THEY will be making the accusations in court of wrongful action against them. THEY will have to prove they were wrongfully disciplined. As it stands right now, we have the employees words against the employers.

    The employees (in the union) are acknowledging they did wrong, but saying its no big deal. The Government is acknowledging they did wrong, and taking action. You seem to be grabbing on to absolute bull**** that you've created from thin air to say they've done no wrong, and then when people call you on your bull**** you go "Prove they did do something wrong!".

    They lied about their use of sick leave and were caught. They've admitted it, the governments stated it. We don't have to prove they lied about the use of sick leave, they've essentially admitted to it. Nor do we have to "prove" the government couldn't act to discipline public employees, employee actions are not a matter of law. However, bringing suit against the employer to suggest wrongful action could be...in which case, the person would have to prove they were wrongfully acted against.

    This is not asking to prove a negative. For example, you could present their contract or the NJ code of ethics and state that no where in there does it state anything that could be applied to that situation. That could be your "proof". You of course don't do that, because you've got nothing to stand on other than your "enlightened" view point that is completely irrelevant to reality and fact.
    Z - do you have experience in handling charges made against union members? Because I have over 20 years worth in literally hundreds of cases.

    Not being a member of their union, I cannot say for 100% sure how there discipline procedure works. But I strongly suspect there is a long established procedure which does just what you pretend it is not. In my former union, anyone subject to a charge of a contractual violation had to have a hearing where the charge was presented against them and they had the right to union representation. The very first thing you look at is the contract language. That is where it all begins.

    It is indeed close to a court hearing with a presentation of charges, evidence, a defense and other things.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-09-11 at 04:09 PM.
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You tell me I look ignorant on this but you and others have not presented any actual contractual violation supported with the contract langauge.
    This is getting to be a lame excuse. You don't think the State of New Jerseys HR department or the Governors lawyers didn't look into the rules?

    So you do not believe in the principle behind it? That is rather unAmerican of you.
    It is far from Un-American to expect people to be honest and follow the rules. You're defending of these clowns is a prime example of why your "enlightenment" doesn't work.

    We need to see two things here: the first is the exact contract language covering use of sick time. Second is the practice on the job and how this has been routinely dealt with and enforced over the life of that same language.
    Since none of us are Judges and we aren't hearing a court case, we need nothing of the sort.
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post


    Yeah, I'm sure the public is going to be staunchly opposed to suspending public employees who skip out on their duties for personal reasons, and bill the taxpayers anyway. Perhaps you could clarify why you think that the public should foot the bill for their absenteeism?
    you know what's funny? people of all stripes play hooky everyday.

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    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    from mac


    This is getting to be a lame excuse. You don't think the State of New Jerseys HR department or the Governors lawyers didn't look into the rules?
    I assume nothing.

    It is far from Un-American to expect people to be honest and follow the rules.
    Which is why we first need to examine the exact language of the rules which have supposedly been broken.

    I pointed out how these things work in real life in labor situations:
    We need to see two things here: the first is the exact contract language covering use of sick time. Second is the practice on the job and how this has been routinely dealt with and enforced over the life of that same language.

    Since none of us are Judges and we aren't hearing a court case, we need nothing of the sort.
    Of course you are free to decide this on the basis of your own biases and pre-judments made without all the facts. As an American you have that right. Thankfully, when this matter isdecided in the arena of reality, you and your standards are not involved.
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    you know what's funny? people of all stripes play hooky everyday.
    and these guys got caught. Who's making it a big deal?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I assume nothing.



    Which is why we first need to examine the exact language of the rules which have supposedly been broken.

    I pointed out how these things work in real life in labor situations:
    We need to see two things here: the first is the exact contract language covering use of sick time. Second is the practice on the job and how this has been routinely dealt with and enforced over the life of that same language.



    Of course you are free to decide this on the basis of your own biases and pre-judments made without all the facts. As an American you have that right. Thankfully, when this matter isdecided in the arena of reality, you and your standards are not involved.
    Are you still prattling on about this? There are consequences for employees who lie... Christie's actions were reasonable.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Are you still prattling on about this? There are consequences for employees who lie... Christie's actions were reasonable.
    I did not realize this case was closed and decided already?
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    Re: Gov Christie suspends union members for fake calling out sick

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    you know what's funny? people of all stripes play hooky everyday.
    you know what's funny? People get caught playing hooky everyday. Remember the chick that got fired because she called in sick but then posted on facebook that she was at a party? Yeaaa...

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