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Thread: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I hope you're referring to a specific state's actions here because I've been a state employee for 8 yrs and I'm not a union member and no one is forcing me to become one.
    Hi, OJ. You can thank your state's right-to-work legislation for giving you that choice. Twenty-eight states do not have right-to-work laws; their union shops are "closed," meaning that anyone working for the company covered under the union contract is required to be a member.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I hope you're referring to a specific state's actions here because I've been a state employee for 8 yrs and I'm not a union member and no one is forcing me to become one.
    Obviously not all states, but it does happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    under federal law a union CANNOT use union dues to make political contributions

    the union can establish a pac for the union members to voluntarily contribute for the benefit of political funding in the union's interests

    so, it is again very evident that you don't know what you are posting about

    personally, i believe that there should be no political contributions allowed other than from registered voters - subject to individual caps - and then they can only contribute to political candidates who - if they prevail in primaries - could have their names placed on the ballot the registered voter would have before them
    all political contributions should be required to be posted to an established publicly accessible website and any contributions not listed would be found to be illegal bribes, for which the giver and the receiver would both be subject to judicial punishment

    this would exclude any union contributions, any corporate contributions, any foreign interest contributions, any lobbyist contributions. additionally, those of means would be unable to fund candidates in districts other than those in which they are registered to vote

    no longer would we have the best government money can buy

    government would again be truly representative of the people
    What law is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Reality seems to be getting in the way of your ideology:

    The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates
    This is bunk. The percentage of taxation on profits doesn't decrease.

    Ya'll really need to stop reading this propaganda.

    I love Leftists scream about, "loopholes", too. Where are those loopholes? Better question, what are they. I want some of that, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Public pensions, in addition to being paid for by taxpayers as everyone points out, ALSO are not only guaranteed by tax payers, but their investment risk is ALSO backed by taxpayers.

    Wisconson pensions use around 8% discount rate to value their pension investments. Private industry uses 6%.
    How can public pensions take the risk to get that extra 2% compounded over a lifetime of work (30+ years?)?

    Well, beacuse they are the government, and can back that risk since they know they will always be there, nor real risk of going out of business, and worst case they do, the fed picks up the tab.

    It's a travesty of the market and everyone knows it...that's why they are steadily going away.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Why is that overcompensation?



    Well, they've have the money if they stop giving tax breaks to corporations. -- Yes, the part of the story Foxies don't get.
    It's overcompensation for two reasons. One, they have the highest, or second highest compensation in the United States. Secondly, it obivously shows, since they have the second highest public pension debt, next to my beloved Illinois. The fact that the public sector gets upset about tax breaks is beyond me, they're merely getting upset that the government won't take away a company's profit and give it to them through a legal theft process, called tax.
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Do you have a link for any of that info? You can't just go around throwing miscellaneous stats around like they are fact. Here are some actual stats for you (not that you'll read them):

    U.S. Uncut, "Progressive Tea Party," Demands Corporations Pay Their Taxes - Blogcritics Politics


    What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes - Forbes.com

    Go Tar Heels!

    And Exxon says they don't need to disclose how much tax they pay to us:


    And how about General Electric:


    So, what world do you live in, sir?
    Here is the list of effective tax rates for some various corporations (from your cited Forbes article):
    1) Wal-Mart-34.2%
    2) Exon Mobil-47%
    3) Chevron-43%
    4) Conoco Phillips-51%
    5) AT&T-32.4%

    Seems to me many of our employers (not all) are indeed paying their fair share in taxes.

    Regardless, you are missing the bigger picture, With such punitive corporate tax rates in this country, many large companies are going off shore to shelter income! If you would open your mind to what is going on, you would then possibly start seeing the trees in the forest instead of being blinded by your own political dogma. Companies shelter income to avoid taxes. Yet guys like yourself keep complaining that they are not paying enough. Your consistent mantra, 'tax them more and more' is resulting in them (corporations) in sheltering more and more. Its no wonder why companies like GE hide income. As a shareholder in many of these companies, I applaud their margin saving measures!

    If you want to see these corporations start paying more--REDUCE THE CORPORATE TAX RATES, which incentivizes multi-national corporations (which all of these are) into paying taxes in the United States instead of abroad. Yet your monolithic thinking still calls for increasing their taxes.

    Remember this fact: Countries compete against each other on many different levels, one of which is tax rates. If it ever becomes advantageous to pay taxes in the United States, companies would flock to the U.S. to pay their taxes AND HIRE OUR CITIZENS. I can't help it if you fail to see this.

    I stand behind my original commentary.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...and what country do you live in? Here, in the United States, the tax rates on corporations appear quite high, but no one takes them seriously, as most large corporations do not pay taxes. In fact, the corporate contribution to overall receipts has been steadily dropping for years, replaced by payroll taxes. Payroll taxes are levied disproportionately on the lowest wage earns (the five figure crowd)....

    You can go ahead and be naive and simplistic about how the real world works while a very damaging trend of bifrucating the US economy into some type of third world country that has rich and poor and nothing in between weakens the foundation of this country.
    EXACTLY MY POINT!!!! Corporate tax contributions will continue to decrease until such time as corporate tax rates start to fall. In an over-taxed society multi-national corporations will continue to shelter income until such time as TAX RATES ARE REDUCED TO MORE COMPETITIVE LEVELS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is just more advantageous to pay foreign taxes than taxes in the United States.

    Until liberals like yourself understand this basic lesson in human behavior (corporations are run by humans) you will fail achieve the tax revenues you crave.

    Should Obama be successful in closing these so call 'tax loopholes', (they are not tax loopholes but that is what he calls them) then two things will happen. 1) corporations will pass the tax on to the consumer, weakening the middle class even further 2) they will continue to go offshore in their hiring. Either way the middle class will suffer and guys like you will continue to spew forth your 'tax the rich' filth.

    BTW: If you want to stop the US economy from turning into a 'third world country' the only savior is to tax corporations AND INDIVIDUALS less, not more.

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    It's overcompensation for two reasons. One, they have the highest, or second highest compensation in the United States.
    $78,000 is the second highest salary in the U.S. -- Where'd you get that winner?


    Secondly, it obivously shows, since they have the second highest public pension debt, next to my beloved Illinois. The fact that the public sector gets upset about tax breaks is beyond me, they're merely getting upset that the government won't take away a company's profit and give it to them through a legal theft process, called tax.
    I get it, you're one of the people who don't like to pay taxes. I guess the hundred of public services that benefit you, directly or indirectly, every single day all just magically happen.

    So, please tell name one privately owned business that makes no use of public services--including roads, streets, police, fire... Is their home office on the moon?

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    Re: The Wisconsin Lie Exposed Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Emplo

    we're not getting what we pay for

    gao, govt accountability office, congressional audit of authority, yesterday, march 1: a full HALF TRILLION dollars of WASTE and DUPLICATION of bureaucratic arrogance, largesse, incompetence, corruption...

    and "most came in fiscal years 2009 and 2010"

    that's g-a-o, gentlepeople

    a HALF A TRILLION---pfft

    reported TUESDAY, march 1

    and you want to give these grafters MORE?

    no wonder you got so hellaciously shellacked on tsunami tuesday

    Gov't Watchdog IDs Billions In Federal Waste - Politics News Story - WSMV Nashville

    GAO Finds Massive Waste, Duplication - FoxBusiness.com

    and don't forget what we're facing, folks---a housing market which popped and brought us here and is still no basement in sight, the states are facing TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION of unfunded public pensions, the states are straining with another QUARTER TRIL via medicaid's expansion, unfunded liabilities in medicare and social security approach the combined gdp of the entire planet, service on the debt---mere INTEREST ALONE---will approach a full ONE TRILLION DOLLARS per year by just after mid decade (according to the nyt), fannie and fred could cost another HALF T...

    debate, anyone?

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