GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

Badmutha said:

Only on government stationary.....the same way PORKULUS created millions of jobs........



We passed unbelievably cheap about $14,000,000,000,000.00 ago.......

Now your mind is made up and its doubtful to change.......as nobody can say for certain what would of or wouldnt of happened.....there is no way for me to prove to you what would of happened without TARP and the GM bailout. But let me use PORKULUS as an example...........which also "saved us from a great depression"

This is what the Obama administration promised......

.......Obama set the objective.....defined Success and Failure.....the goal posts were anchored.


This is the excrement sandwhich we received........

Unemployment Rate since Obama's Stimulus/"Jobs Bill"

....by any measurement..........an EPIC FAIL. But its the belief that without government it would have been worse.....and when its worse.....it would have been worser......is the reason government gets the green light to create Government disasters to solve Government created disasters.
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BadMutha said:

mbig said:

And still waiting for Badmutha to Substantiate or APOLOGIZE to the board for his OP Claim that Obama "promised us a profit".

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Big this is common knowledge........as Obama made the claims on numerous occasions........

After devoting two seconds of searching......

TARP for Fun, But Not Profit - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

During the economic policy speech he just wrapped up, President Obama said that the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) "is going to reap billions in profits."

And while we know that we will not escape the worst financial crisis in decades without some losses to taxpayers, it's worth noting that in the first round of repayments from these companies the government has actually turned a profit.--Barack HusSame Obama
Whenever you get that TARP dividend check or Government Motors profit sharing check........you let us know.

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"....And while we know that we will not escape the worst financial crisis in decades without losses to the taxpayers, it is worth noting that in the first round of repayments from these companies, the government has actually turned a profit.".."

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mbig said:

Lots of IRRELEVANT Info and still the extra 4 dots for length. While laughing at your dots at first, I now realize they're the best part of your posts.

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Is there a point to ANY of what you posted or is this just general hackery/spaghetti at the wall?
(and 2 'photobucket'/UNsourced Charts to boot)

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General Motors Co.‘s recent stock offering was staged to start paying back the government for its $50 billion bailout, but one group made out much better than the taxpayers or other investors: the company’s union.

Thanks to a generous share of GM stock obtained in the company’s 2009 bankruptcy settlement, the United Auto Workers is well on its way to recouping the billions of dollars GM owed it — putting it far ahead of taxpayers who have recouped only about 30 percent of their investment and further still ahead of investors in the old GM who have received nothing.

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Mr. Obama said Americans are now "positioned to recover more than my administration invested in GM" as a result of the IPO, which reduced the government's ownership stake in the company from 61 percent to 36 percent, according to the Associated Press.

According to the AP, for the government to break even on the bailout it will have to sell its remaining interest at an average of about $50 a share. GM stock closed today at $34.19.

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The Prof said:

more "fox style" attacks

from cbs---LOL!

Obama: GM's Success Proves "Doubters" Wrong - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

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Admit it: When the federal government decided last fall to spend hundreds of billions to stabilize banks through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, you thought the money was as good as gone.

Not so, President Barack Obama said at the White House on June 9, 2009.

"Several financial institutions are set to pay back $68 billion to taxpayers," he said. "And while we know that we will not escape the worst financial crisis in decades without Some Losses to taxpayers, it's worth noting that in the first round of repayments from these companies the government has actually turned a profit."

A quick summary of how we got to this point:

As part of the TARP, the government invested about $200 billion in 600 banks across the country, essentially buying up preferred stock.

A lot of banks now want out. The government money came with strings, including restrictions on executive compensation. Plus, there was a stigma attached to participating in the government program.

On June 9, the Treasury Department announced that 10 of the largest financial institutions that participated in the Capital Purchase Program (through TARP) have been approved to repay $68 billion. Yes, they had to be approved to repay the money. The companies had to prove they no longer needed the money, because the government doesn't want them begging for more down the road.

To date, those 10 companies have paid dividends on their preferred stock to the Treasury totaling about $1.8 billion, the Treasury announced. Overall, dividend payments from all of the 600 bank participants has come to about $4.5 billion so far. That's commensurate with the 5 percent (annualized) dividend return that was part of the terms of the program.

Now, the government borrowed the money it invested in the banks, and so dividends from the preferred stock are offset by interest the government has had to pay on its loans. But that interest rate has been lower than the 5 percent dividend rate. So when the companies repay the loans, it will result in some profit to the government, banking analysts told us.

There's another potential profit center. As part of the deal with banks, the federal government received warrants to buy stock at a future date (with the hope that as the economy improved and bank stock value rose, the government could share in the bounty). According to the Treasury announcement on June 9, firms that repay their preferred stock have the right to repurchase those warrants at fair market value. Experts believe that could fetch the government several billion dollars. That's in addition to the dividends.

David John, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said that while it's accurate to say the government is turning a profit on these specific transactions, it was so costly to create the TARP that "you can't say the overall program is a moneymaker."

And, John said, the 10 financial institutions that will be repaying the Treasury are among the strongest. It remains to be seen how the others will fare, he said.

"It's way too soon to judge the entire program," John said. "I'd be surprised if it ends up anything better than break-even."

Still, the public too often tagged TARP as a bailout, said John Hall, a spokesman for the American Bankers Association.

"It's as if people thought money was handed out to banks," Hall said. "It wasn't. And it drove us nuts. The government has turned a profit. It made money plus some."

Bank analyst Bert Ely said while the government may end up losing money on investments in some financial firms, it's likely the entirety of the bank portion of the TARP will ultimately turn a profit.

The 5 percent paid in dividends on preferred stock purchased by the Treasury will certainly outpace the interest rate on money borrowed to finance the program, he said. And the warrants could also prove profitable.

"People think the government gave banks money," Ely said. "They made investments in banks."

As for Obama's claim, he is careful to note that the overall program could still cost taxpayers money, but he is correct to say the government turned a profit on the first round of repayments. We rate his statement True.

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mbig said:

Here's how the Controversy started, and what's been pervertd by a few Blogs and alot of partisan Hacks.

PolitiFact | Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks
"In the first round of repayments" from financial institutions that received TARP money, "the government has actually turned a profit."
Barack Obama on Tuesday, June 9th, 2009 in a statement at the White House
Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks.

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Badmutha said:

....so those TARP dividend checks should be coming any minute now Big......
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USA_1 said:

Thank you George Bush for creating TARP and the conditions that led to it's need and to leave office with an economy on the brink of depression. Thanks again for me not being able to retire when I had planned.

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mbig said:

They absolutely were broke and saved by the FED and Forced/arranged mergers.

And at least get your wrong claims straight. That was the BUSH/Paulson "hype"/FACT.

Another empty apparachik here.

This board is full of one-line, know-nothing, Partsian Hacks who can't back anything they say and have no clue what they're talking about.
It's Comical and sad.

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Badmutha said:

Well dont forget to thank Senator Obama....The Democrat controlled Senate.....and Democrat controlled House.......

....without which....TARP would not have been possible.
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mbig said:

TARP is now estimated to cost $28 Billion to save the whole US Financial and Jobs infrastructure.. down from the original Bush Price tag of 750 Billion.
It may Yet Yield a profit.

Even if it doesn't, this is UNBELIEVABLY Cheap to save the whole US and world economic system (Banks, Brokers, Car companies, etc) from total ruin of the Bush-caused Depression.

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Objective Voice said:

All things being equal, those who are complaining about taxpayers not being paid back from TARP/GM bailouts should also still be pissed that we didn't get paid back from the Savings and Loan bailout where our loses were nearly double what they may be under TARP/GM.

I've commented on this before, but the pundits really don't want to talk about it seeing that it's old news (and it happened on Reagan's watch). Well, I got news for you...

This TARP/GM issue will one day be old news as well, but atleast we got a higher ROI on this bailout than we did on the last. Frankly, I'm not happy with either but what was done was done and the overall damage to the nation's economy was minimized. GM remains a viable U.S. automaker, people ARE working at their production plants and the economy is slowly improving (that is until gas prices put a big dent in any progress that was being made - DAMN!)

So, if you really want to complain about something go back and research the S&L scandal and see if that bailout really helped the country as a whole or if it merely profitted a small few for a large sum on that taxpayer's nickle.

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ptif219 said:

There is no proof it saved anything. It did grow government. As for jobs unemployment just kept increasing

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USA_1 said:

Thank you George Bush for creating TARP and the conditions that led to it's need and to leave office with an economy on the brink of depression. Thanks again for me not being able to retire when I had planned.

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USA_1 said:

What's your opinion of the Savings and Loan collapse and it's government bailout?

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ptif219 said:

It is ancient history and has nothing to do with this

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The Prof said:

S&L crisis---LOL!

you're gonna re-electioneer the eighties?

Americans Say Reagan Is the Greatest U.S. President

knock yourself out

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USA_1 said:

Not ancient history. We are still paying for that bailout. A bailout bigger than this one. Why do republican presidents make things so bad that bailouts are needed?

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