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Thread: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

  1. #61
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I usually get a chuckle from the Lord's comments. As if the choices spelled out above are the onlu possible answers because he says so.
    My sense is that the company, GM would be in BETTER shape if they can gone through reorg versus the bailout.
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    OK it is fair enough that we disagree whether GM could have gotten financing or someone would have boght them out on the cheap in bankruptcy. It was Ford's estimate of the market for 2011. They are a bit higher than the average estimate. But the average in still in the mid 12 million number. I agree that we are still in recovery stage and will be for a number of years. Also remember that the high water mark for car sales was 16 plus million. With tighter credit and people trying to clean up their personal balance sheets I do not think we will hit that number anytime soon. But the industry seems to have redeuced costs to the extent they can make some money at around the 11 million level.
    Lets back things up

    Who would or could have bought GM? US automakers? European? Japanese? I certainly doubt any that would have liked to would have had the money, those that had the money would have been chinese. And for buying GM to make any sense GM would have had to offer something to the car maker something they did not have. No western car maker needs anything GM had. Chinese ones yes.

    Financing. GM went tits up in the middle of the finincial crisis, the finacial institutions were getting massive bailouts from the government at the time, just where were they supposed to get money to lend to GM? The government?

    As for the government bailout of GM, it involved a massive reorg as well

    4 brands were shut down, nearly 1/3 of employees let go, about 25% of its US manufacturing plants were shut down, GM debt load went from 95 billion to 17 billion

    I listed the options I did, because I actually gave the situation ration logical thought about potential possibilities, not pie in the sky ones like the possibility of Microsoft getting in the car manufacturing business. The options I listed were by far the most likely possibilities during that time frame. If GM was to have gone bankrupt in say 2005 the options would have been different as the economic situations would have been different.


    As it stands GM came out of Bankrupcty fairly well (as you stated it made a 4.7 billion dollar profit in 2010.

    If you have a better list of options for what could have happened to GM at that time, please present them with the reasoning behind them other then just other companies have gone into bankruptcy and gotten funding during it. That time frame was not normal and GM is not the same as most companies (it is rather far larger then most companies)
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  2. #62
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    the only links pasted in this thread are from businessweek, reuters, cnn, abc, the nyt and forbes

    what are ya lookin at?
    LOL away
    The OP Link, Business Week, merely told us the stock fell below the IPO price.

    The Poster did ALL the editorialization and withheld/Didn't know the reason for the price decline.

    Instead made an empty FoxNews style Rabies attack on Obama.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-28-11 at 01:51 AM.
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  3. #63
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Obama said we would make a profit for bailing out the ae UAW..........

    .......as soon as GM stock hits $140.00/pigs fly.......we can start reaping those profits.
    Really?
    You have a Link for that claim?


    Yes of course......without Obama it would have been worse.....and when its worse.....it would have been worser.

    .......and 15% unemployment 8 years after the New Deal was a "success"........now lets all be good servants to the state.
    Would have been worse without TARP.. absolutely.
    CBO report: Stimulus package saved or created as many as 1.6 million jobs - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room


    GM IPO: Auto Bailout Saved More Than 1 Million Jobs, Study Says - Deal Journal - WSJ
    NOVEMBER 17, 2010, 3:13 PM ET
    Shira Ovide
    No matter what happens with Government Motors, the taxpayer intervention in the auto business appears to be a win for Americans, a new research report asserts.

    The Center for Automotive Research said today the government’s bailouts of the U.S. auto industry spared more than 1.14 million jobs last year alone, and prevented “additional personal income losses” of nearly $97 billion combined for this year and last....
    http://www.pressandguide.com/article...txt?viewmode=3

    “There is a compelling case that Obamanomics has produced results. An economy that was shrinking in size and bleeding more than 700,000 jobs a month is now growing at 2.6 percent and added 1.1 million jobs last year. The [February 2009 Stimulus], produced or saved at least 1.9 million jobs and as many as 4.7 million last year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. ….. TARP started under Bush and continued by Obama, stabilized the financial sector, and the big banks have repaid the money with interest. …..TARP will cost taxpayers $28 billion instead of the $700 billion originally set aside. The nearly $80 billion bailout of the auto industry may cost taxpayers only $15 billion, as the restructured General Motors and Chrysler come back to life with strong sales. The stock market has surged; corporate profits are setting records.”

    That's one TINY Price tag to prevent another 1929.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-28-11 at 01:52 AM.
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    anon

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Really?
    You have a Link for that claim?
    From your bible.......G.M. Shares Must Hit New Heights to Pay Back U.S. - NYTimes.com


    Would have been worse without TARP.. absolutely.
    CBO report: Stimulus package saved or created as many as 1.6 million jobs - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room


    GM IPO: Auto Bailout Saved More Than 1 Million Jobs, Study Says - Deal Journal - WSJ
    NOVEMBER 17, 2010, 3:13 PM ET
    Shira Ovide


    Local Republican, Democrat square off:Global warming, real or imagined? - Opinion - Press and Guide

    “There is a compelling case that Obamanomics has produced results. An economy that was shrinking in size and bleeding more than 700,000 jobs a month is now growing at 2.6 percent and added 1.1 million jobs last year. The [February 2009 Stimulus], produced or saved at least 1.9 million jobs and as many as 4.7 million last year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. ….. TARP started under Bush and continued by Obama, stabilized the financial sector, and the big banks have repaid the money with interest. …..TARP will cost taxpayers $28 billion instead of the $700 billion originally set aside. The nearly $80 billion bailout of the auto industry may cost taxpayers only $15 billion, as the restructured General Motors and Chrysler come back to life with strong sales. The stock market has surged; corporate profits are setting records.”

    That's one TINY Price tag to prevent another 1929.
    As stated before......a belief that without Obama (government) it would have been worse.......and when its worse.....it would have been worser.....

    .....is to believe government has the solution to every government created disaster.
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  5. #65
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wrong without Obama the market and capitalism would have worked.
    Wrong.
    Without Obama, Bush, Paulsen, Bernanke, TARP, it was OVER.
    Capitalism FAILED.

    Citibank was Broke
    Bankamerica was Broke
    Merrill Lynch was Broke.
    Wachovia Broke.
    Lehman Failed.
    AIG Failed.
    etc etc etc etc, etc, etc
    And their failures would have chain-Collapsed the system.
    GE and Goldman Sachs had to borrow money from Buffett.
    Many other Banks, Insurance companies also down 80% or more.
    It was selling pencils time/1929 without TARP.

    Capitalism FAILED.
    Consumers were over-leveraged, and banks failed on the most basic stewardishship/business of Capitalism.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-28-11 at 02:04 AM.
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    anon

  6. #66
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    What's that?

    Here's YOU OP Claim:
    Quote Originally Posted by BadMutha OP

    Remember......Obama told us that "we would make a profit" from bailing out the UAW Union of Slobs.........the same for TARP.
    Link for THAT "make a profit" Claim or Withdraw and Apologize to the board.


    As stated before......a belief that without Obama (government) it would have been worse.......and when its worse.....it would have been worser.....

    .....is to believe government has the solution to every government created disaster.
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    TARP was absolutely necessary.
    It was all over.
    There's no question to anyone with even ANY basic financial understanding whatsoever.

    BTW, do you feel adding these dots/length
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    Gives your goofy claims any more weight?
    Last edited by mbig; 02-28-11 at 02:11 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Wrong.
    Without Obama, Bush, Paulsen, Bernanke, TARP, it was OVER.
    Capitalism FAILED.

    Citibank was Broke
    Bankamerica was Broke
    Merrill Lynch was Broke.
    Wachovia Broke.
    Lehman Failed.
    AIG Failed.
    etc etc etc etc, etc, etc
    And their failures would have chain-Collapsed the system.
    GE and Goldman Sachs had to borrow money from Buffett.
    Many other Banks, Insurance companies also down 80% or more.
    It was selling pencils time/1929 without TARP.

    Capitalism FAILED.
    Consumers were over-leveraged, and banks failed on the most basic stewardishship/business of Capitalism.
    So you really think that was "Capitalism" and "Free Markets" in 2007?

    F&F--The Largest Mortgage Underwriters in the world.......and you think it was "Capitalism" that failed.......good gawd.
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Wrong.
    Without Obama, Bush, Paulsen, Bernanke, TARP, it was OVER.
    Capitalism FAILED.

    Citibank was Broke
    Bankamerica was Broke
    Merrill Lynch was Broke.
    Wachovia Broke.
    Lehman Failed.
    AIG Failed.
    etc etc etc etc, etc, etc
    And their failures would have chain-Collapsed the system.
    GE and Goldman Sachs had to borrow money from Buffett.
    Many other Banks, Insurance companies also down 80% or more.
    It was selling pencils time/1929 without TARP.

    Capitalism FAILED.
    Consumers were over-leveraged, and banks failed on the most basic stewardishship/business of Capitalism.
    They were not broke. but keep believing the Obama hype.

  9. #69
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    So you really think that was "Capitalism" and "Free Markets" in 2007?
    What do you think it was?
    It certainly was NOT Obama in 2007.
    And Democrats didn't win/populate Congress until January of 2007.
    For the 6 years Previous we had a GOP President AND Congress.



    F&F--The Largest Mortgage Underwriters in the world.......and you think it was "Capitalism" that failed.......good gawd.
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    I showed it DID fail-- while you merely make Goofy/EMPTY counterclaims.

    You know NOTHING about the economy whatsoever. You just make absurd/Partisan posts.. as I said in my first post in this string.

    Do you have ANYTHING substantial to say at all besides "goof Gawd" spaced with 4 dots?
    Last edited by mbig; 02-28-11 at 02:27 AM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    What do you think it was?
    The unintended consequences of an over-reaching government......

    It certainly was NOT Obama in 2007.
    ....of course not.....nothing detrimental in world history is the fault of Obama.

    And Democrats didn't win/populate Congress until January of 2007.
    Well obviously they had absolutely nothing to do with it........it was all Bush and Republicans.....

    Unemployment Rate Since Democrats Took Over Congress



    For the 6 years Previous we had a GOP President AND Congress.
    The seeds of the mortgage collapse were planted long before 2000-2006.....

    I showed it DID fail-- while hyou merely make Goofy/EMPTY counterclaims.

    You know NOTHING about the economy whatsoever. You just make absurd/Partisan posts.. as I said in my first post in this string.

    Do you have ANYTHING substantial to say at all besides "goof Gawd" spaced with 4 dots?
    You showed what failed exactly?

    Free Markets and Capitalism have long been extinct in this country.......
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