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Thread: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

  1. #51
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Are you sure you understand modern business?
    Here is one viewpoint. I guess they don't understand business either.
    GM might not be able to get financing it needs in bankruptcy - Nov. 13, 2008
    It said it MIGHT not work, not that it would not as you say. Yup sometimes in business it it hard to make something happen, but that is what good managers get paid to do.

    Would you care to say what you do for a living to back up your comments?

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    GM due to the timing of it entering its trouble would have had a very hard time finding any bankrupcty funding to allow it to operate during bankruptcy. It was at the height of the financial crisis that GM went broke. Funding for profitable business's was hard to get, let alone business's losing billions of dollars. No financial institutions would have poured the billions of dollars into GM at that time. Leaving GM with one option, selling the company to another car company. No european car company would have wanted it, (other then certain parts), no US car maker could afford to. Nor would any Japanese company wanted it. Leaving various Chinese companies as the prime suitors for GM. GM would have been a good catch for SAIC, or Chery, Geely or some of the other Chinese main automakers. But I doubt the US would have allowed GM to be bought by a Chinese company

    So at the time of the GM bankruptcy there would have been 4 options. Dissolving GM, government funded bankrupcty, governemnt funding outside of bankruptcy and selling the company to a chinese firm
    I usually get a chuckle from the Lord's comments. As if the choices spelled out above are the onlu possible answers because he says so.

  3. #53
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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    It said it MIGHT not work, not that it would not as you say. Yup sometimes in business it it hard to make something happen, but that is what good managers get paid to do.

    Would you care to say what you do for a living to back up your comments?
    You claimed I did not understand business because I didn't agree with you. The truth is there was a very good chance GM would not recover from filing bankruptcy. I didn't say that was a bad thing, just that it was a very good possiblity and I did not believe they would.
    What does my occupation have to do with anything? I am semi retired.
    Last edited by USA_1; 02-27-11 at 07:55 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    You claimed I did not understand business because I didn't agree with you. The truth is there was a very good chance GM would not recover from filing bankruptcy. I didn't say that was a bad thing, just that it was a very good possiblity and I did not believe they would.
    What does my occupation have to do with anything? I am semi retired.
    Go to your post #34. You said they WOULD fail not that they might fail or probably would fail. The you show an article that said that the path would be hard and they could fail, big difference.

    The reason I asked about your occupation, if you were a student who has taken some business classes or someone who took business in school and then worked in another field, I could understand the mistake. If however you really worked as an example as a manager at a fortune 500 company I would think you are just basing your comments on partisan junk that I don't want to waste time on.

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Go to your post #34. You said they WOULD fail not that they might fail or probably would fail. The you show an article that said that the path would be hard and they could fail, big difference.

    The reason I asked about your occupation, if you were a student who has taken some business classes or someone who took business in school and then worked in another field, I could understand the mistake. If however you really worked as an example as a manager at a fortune 500 company I would think you are just basing your comments on partisan junk that I don't want to waste time on.
    I said they would fail. I believed that. You said they wouldn't fail since other companies come out of bankruptcy and prosper.
    My sense is that the company, GM would be in BETTER shape if they can gone through reorg versus the bailout.
    I don't see any difference.

    You must be a student.
    Last edited by USA_1; 02-27-11 at 08:09 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    I said they would fail. I believed that. You said they wouldn't fail since other companies come out of bankruptcy and prosper.
    I don't see any difference.

    You must be a student.
    I wish I was a student. I am retired. But my son is a student at a very good business school.

    There is no way all of that productive capacity would have been scapped becuase we fell into a recession that cut back on production for a few years. This year it is estimated we will sell about 13 million cars and trucks. That might be missed a bit due to high fuel prices and if the economy takes a turn for the worse. In all probability the total will exceed 12 million. As I said earlier, GM is weaker for the fact they used TARP versus chapter where they could have cleaned up work rules, closed more plants and fixed their labor rates. That is water under the bridge. In 210 GM earned something like $4.7 billion, so they have little chance of failing again very quickly.

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I wish I was a student. I am retired. But my son is a student at a very good business school.

    There is no way all of that productive capacity would have been scapped becuase we fell into a recession that cut back on production for a few years. This year it is estimated we will sell about 13 million cars and trucks. That might be missed a bit due to high fuel prices and if the economy takes a turn for the worse. In all probability the total will exceed 12 million. As I said earlier, GM is weaker for the fact they used TARP versus chapter where they could have cleaned up work rules, closed more plants and fixed their labor rates. That is water under the bridge. In 210 GM earned something like $4.7 billion, so they have little chance of failing again very quickly.
    They would(IMHO) not have made a profit without the government cash. No one would have invested in a GM that had filed bankruptcy without the bailout.
    Who made the estimate of car sales? I would wager they are a little high. This economic downturn is not over and I believe it will get worse before it gets better if it ever does get better.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    They would(IMHO) not have made a profit without the government cash. No one would have invested in a GM that had filed bankruptcy without the bailout.
    Who made the estimate of car sales? I would wager they are a little high. This economic downturn is not over and I believe it will get worse before it gets better if it ever does get better.
    OK it is fair enough that we disagree whether GM could have gotten financing or someone would have boght them out on the cheap in bankruptcy. It was Ford's estimate of the market for 2011. They are a bit higher than the average estimate. But the average in still in the mid 12 million number. I agree that we are still in recovery stage and will be for a number of years. Also remember that the high water mark for car sales was 16 plus million. With tighter credit and people trying to clean up their personal balance sheets I do not think we will hit that number anytime soon. But the industry seems to have redeuced costs to the extent they can make some money at around the 11 million level.

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    This thread is a pitiful piece of partisan hackery.
    The whole market, and of course the auto stocks, have suffered because of the Libya Oil Price shock.
    So let's blame that on Obama! Yeah!

    GO FOX GOONS GO!
    Obama said we would make a profit for bailing out the UAW..........

    .......as soon as GM stock hits $140.00/pigs fly.......we can start reaping those profits.

    and btw, without TARP there would be no Banks, No Market, no economy, and No jobs.
    The Car companies and a few million Jobs down the supply and retail chain were saved rather cheaply.
    Yes of course......without Obama it would have been worse.....and when its worse.....it would have been worser.

    .......and 15% unemployment 8 years after the New Deal was a "success"........now lets all be good servants to the state.
    .
    .
    .

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    Re: GM Falls Below IPO Price as Rising Oil Dims Truck Outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    This thread is a pitiful piece of partisan hackery.
    The whole market, and of course the auto stocks, have suffered because of the Libya Oil Price shock.
    So let's blame that on Obama! Yeah!

    GO FOX GOONS GO!

    and btw, without TARP there would be no Banks, No Market, no economy, and No jobs.
    The Car companies and a few million Jobs down the supply and retail chain were saved rather cheaply.
    Wrong without Obama the market and capitalism would have worked.

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