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Rich-Poor gap widening

I suppose I just don't understand the mindset of "If someone has a lot of money, they deserve to have it and earned it, all those people without money are just failures/lazy/human trash."

I guess I don't understand the mentality that if someone has lots of money they don't deserve it and those who don't have lots of money are owed money merely by existing within a certain geopolitical distance of someone who does
 
I guess I don't understand the mentality that if someone has lots of money they don't deserve it and those who don't have lots of money are owed money merely by existing within a certain geopolitical distance of someone who does

It generally not in the form of money, but social services. Now get to tabulating your wealth so we can accurately access your fair share to pay of the road leading to my driveway. :giggle1:
 
It generally not in the form of money, but social services. Now get to tabulating your wealth so we can accurately access your fair share to pay of the road leading to my driveway. :giggle1:

I pay more in taxes in a quarter than you will make any of your first 20 years out of college

your existence is not a claim on my wealth
 
The fact that you have wealth does not elevate you to a status above society.
 
The fact that you have wealth does not elevate you to a status above society.

never said that but since I get no additional governmental benefits that you don't get the claim that I should pay even more taxes is specious
 
never said that but since I get no additional governmental benefits that you don't get the claim that I should pay even more taxes is specious

You don't get privilege for paying a larger sum of money in tax? Firstly I hate bitching about taxes from any side. I don't like discussing it in any way. But that you should get benefits for ostensibly paying more in money that is technically worth less to you as the cost of living and goods are the same for you as anyone else.. I don't see how you can complain.
 
You don't get privilege for paying a larger sum of money in tax? Firstly I hate bitching about taxes from any side. I don't like discussing it in any way. But that you should get benefits for ostensibly paying more in money that is technically worth less to you as the cost of living and goods are the same for you as anyone else.. I don't see how you can complain.

I don't get any additional benefits FROM THE GOVERNMENT

that is where the tax the rich crowd fails

they assume that some are richer merely because the GOVERNMENT has given them more

its like claiming that the valedictorian in a public HS was Given more by the school than a slacker making C grades.

I complain because I have to pay more and get no additional benefits
 
I don't get any additional benefits FROM THE GOVERNMENT

Oh, no I understood quite well. Do you need your binky? Maybe respond to the things I say instead of freaking out about how you don't get enough from the government? Maybe a nice bullet train? Public malls and subways made of marble? Well adjusted people of all classes you can get along with?



LMFAO i cant contain myself.
 
I don't get any additional benefits FROM THE GOVERNMENT

that is where the tax the rich crowd fails

I see the month of March has not seen any clearing up of your Continual Costco Confusion.

Still twisting your own thought processes to confuse the retailshopping experience with a citizens relationship to their government I see.

......its like claiming ......

No. This is this. This isn't something else. This is this.

I complain because I have to pay more and get no additional benefits

Complain all you want. That will not change your tax obligation into a Costco credit card with a hefty credit balance.
 
Mayor Snorkum knows the real meaning of the expandin gap between the richest and the poorest.

.

Are you talking about another different person with the same name or are you talking about yourself like you are a completely different person?
 
The Rich actually use the majority of government services and entitlements

"Say what? Yeah i know it sounds counter intuitive.

But the massive military is there to protect Americans wealth. The top 10% has 80% of that.. so 80% of military expenditures is to protect the wealthy. And we can see it directly when we sent the military to save the US captain caught by somali pirates. (think that costs a dime or two?)

The nations highway system is enjoyed by all, but mostly by commercial traffic to get the wealthy products to places where they can sell to you.

Sure the poor fly now and then, but for the most part the airports support those that have meetings and business adventures or vacations.

the rich fly more.

when californian fights forest fires to protect houses they are mainly protecting the houses of the wealthy, even when they go into poor neighborhoods, most of those people rent from the wealthy.

Yes the rich send their kids to private school, but they get workers that are smarter than rocks, due to the public school system. This allows them to sell more product.

the police protect people and wealth.. and as we mentioned the rich have 80% of the wealth. Keeping the criminals in prisons funded by the government, keeps them off the street and from robbing the rich.

the rich and corps use most of the energy in this country, so a majority of the money spent on the energy structure is to benefit the wealthy.

The rich use the court system to fight competition and to protect their investments. The poor use the court system to go to jail.

No poor man has ever gotten an earmark.

they even benefit from welfare. When you provide the destitute enough to eat, you ease desperation. Starving people will murder you for bread, especially if they have starving children.

WE live in a society, you really cant escape that fact. The rich like to complain we are stealing money they earn and wasting it on the poor.
Well i hope i have atleast shown they actually benefit from a lot of government spending.
How about that stealing part?
If you had a trillion dollars on a desert island.. would it be worth anything but for starting fires?
Government create money and create and protect the market.
The market set up decides how much to compensate you for work you do.
But you didnt earn anything in a vaccuum.
Dont believe me, go invent an ipod in the desert with no one elses help, make millions selling it to cacti and come back and tell me how wrong i was.
No one lives in a vaccumm we live in a society.
When the government increases taxes, it isnt stealing, it is simply keeping more of americans wealth that was CREATED BY GOVERNMENT for itself.

They arent stealing from you by raising taxes, they are simply allowing you to take less home from the american market created by and protected by the american government.

it is why tax cuts are tickle up, because the government is setting up the market rules to benefit the rich over the poor.. it has nothing to do with stealing.. the government created the game.

However when you create massive deficits from tax cuts that IS stealing from the future.

and Like i said if you dont believe me, create your own money, create your own market, set your own rules/.. start a society. And if you want you can not educate the people and see how happy you are with employees that cant read or write or count."

Newsvine - The Rich actually use the majority of government services and entitlements.


So let the spending cuts to these programs begin!
 
Ever since Reagan drastically cut taxes for the wealthiest of Americans, the rich have been getting richer at an astronomical pace. Check out this interesting article that documents the growing disparity between the top1% of the population and the remaining 99%....

:shrug: the poor have been getting wealthier, and the wealthy have been getting wealthier faster. as could be predicted; the easier it becomes for someone to build wealth, the more those who are better at doing so will achieve.


but remind me again - why should i care?
 
The Rich actually use the majority of government services and entitlements

"Say what? Yeah i know it sounds counter intuitive.

not really. the "wealthy" (although i think to make this work you have to add in a good chunk of the middle class) are by definition better at taking advantage of what is available.

which is why yet another reason we shouldn't have government in the business of shifting money around.

at the very least we need to start means-testing the entitlements.
 
not really. the "wealthy" (although i think to make this work you have to add in a good chunk of the middle class) are by definition better at taking advantage of what is available.

which is why yet another reason we shouldn't have government in the business of shifting money around.

at the very least we need to start means-testing the entitlements.

I have no problem with means testing, and I think we should have the same thing for corporate welfare. For example, oil companies have been making trillions of dollars in profits and we still subsidize them with millions of taxpayer dollars and millions more in tax cuts and they create very few jobs here in the US.
 
what do you mean by "subsidize with tax cuts" ?


and they create fewer jobs here in the US because we don't allow them to DRILL here. if we opened up the West Coast, Alaska, the East Coast, etc to drilling; then we would see a surge of economic activity.


but again, I have to ask; why (outside of general curiosity) should I care what the rich are making? I care what the poor are making, because I want to find wise ways of increasing it; but let the rich worry about themselves.
 
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what do you mean by "subsidize with tax cuts" ?

"Oil production is one of the most heavily subsidized businesses in America, with tax breaks available at almost every stage of the exploration and extraction process, according to an analysis by The New York Times. The tax breaks average about $4 billion a year, based on various government reports, and are preserved by the oil industry's massive political influence.

The many subsidies in BP's (BP) disastrous Deepwater Horizon drilling venture, which resulted in the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history, are typical. Transocean (RIG), the owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform, registered the rig in the Marshall Islands, where it is subject to lower taxes and less stringent safety regulations. The company moved its corporate headquarters overseas from Houston in 1999, saving $1.8 billion in taxes in its years abroad. It is headquartered in Switzerland now, where it has far fewer employees than in Houston.

BP also gained huge tax benefits in leasing the Deepwater Horizon rig, writing off 70% of the platform's rent -- a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began, according to a letter sent to the Senate Finance Committee.

Paying Much Lower Taxes Than Virtually Any Other Industry

The Times reports: "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

For many small and midsize oil businesses, the tax on capital investments is so low that their returns on them are often higher after taxes than before.

The government is now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the enormous Gulf oil spill cleanup. This, and attempts to curb the oil industry's tax breaks, are likely to encounter fierce opposition in Congress. The Times reports that the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending.

The oil industry claims that cutting the subsidies and tax breaks threatens jobs and oil production. But a Treasury Department economist cited in 2009 a study that found oil prices and potential profits were so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease U.S. output by less than 0.5%."

See full article from DailyFinance: Oil Companies Reap Billions in U.S. Subsidies and Tax Breaks - DailyFinance

If we are to look at means testing for welfare recipients which I agree we should, why would we continue to provide welfare to oil companies that are making trillions of dollars? We are sharing in their costs but not in the record profits. How can we ever get our debt under control without means testing for corporate welfare?
 
i'm not really seeing anything there that is all that awful. so the tax rates here forced them overseas (not surprising), and they write off their losses just like everyone else. i really can't see that as corporate welfare.
 
i'm not really seeing anything there that is all that awful. so the tax rates here forced them overseas (not surprising), and they write off their losses just like everyone else. i really can't see that as corporate welfare.

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

Paul Simon
The Boxer

You have been presented with the facts and you make a intentional choice to reject the obvious implication of the facts. The right wing movement in this nation is based solely on just this sort of belief system which ignores facts, data and what is actually happening.

Tax subsidies are corporate welfare. There is no way around it.

Tax incentives favoring one company over another are corporate welfare as well as being inherently unfair to existing companies who were not given them.

To willfully pretend they are not corporate welfare is a sad sign of right wing ideology and a sad indictment of what has happened to politics in America.
 
I have no problem with means testing, and I think we should have the same thing for corporate welfare. For example, oil companies have been making trillions of dollars in profits and we still subsidize them with millions of taxpayer dollars and millions more in tax cuts and they create very few jobs here in the US.

Oil and gas royalties bring in $6 billion in revenues to the government every year. That's just royalties. That doesn't include payroll taxes, income taxes, etc. Plus th taxes generated from the hundreds of thousands of jobs created all over the country.
 
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

Paul Simon
The Boxer

You have been presented with the facts and you make a intentional choice to reject the obvious implication of the facts. The right wing movement in this nation is based solely on just this sort of belief system which ignores facts, data and what is actually happening.

Tax subsidies are corporate welfare. There is no way around it.

the only "tax subsidy" i saw there was allowing companies to write off losses.

if you want to get rid of that; i'm fine with doing so, but it should be done across the board. no picking of winners and losers.

Tax incentives favoring one company over another are corporate welfare as well as being inherently unfair to existing companies who were not given them.

all companies are allowed to write off losses. that was my point; it didn't look like the oil companies were getting anything that wasn't generally available. now, if they were getting actual subsidies (say, like big agribusiness does) then i would be 100% about getting rid of those.
 
Oil and gas royalties bring in $6 billion in revenues to the government every year. That's just royalties. That doesn't include payroll taxes, income taxes, etc. Plus th taxes generated from the hundreds of thousands of jobs created all over the country.

gosh apdst; do you think there is a way that we could increase the revenue to the government from income taxes by oil industry jobs in the US? :)
 
Plenty of companies demand and get tax subsidies from governments to move into a community, or just remain in a community. That is corporate welfare.
They demand that government spend monies on their behalf. That is corporate welfare.
They demand incentives and sweeteners to entice them or keep them in a community besides tax subsidies. That is corporate welfare.
 
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Plenty of companies demand and get tax subsidies from governments to move into a community, or just remain in a community. That is corporate welfare.

yup; and at the federal level i'm against it.

They demand that government spend monies on their behalf. That is corporate welfare.

yup; and at all levels i'm against it.

They demand incentives and sweeteners to entice them or keep them in a community besides tax subsidies. That is corporate welfare.

agreed. and i'm generally against that too, but it depends more on the situation.
 
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