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Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #341
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not really. the "wealthy" (although i think to make this work you have to add in a good chunk of the middle class) are by definition better at taking advantage of what is available.

    which is why yet another reason we shouldn't have government in the business of shifting money around.

    at the very least we need to start means-testing the entitlements.
    I have no problem with means testing, and I think we should have the same thing for corporate welfare. For example, oil companies have been making trillions of dollars in profits and we still subsidize them with millions of taxpayer dollars and millions more in tax cuts and they create very few jobs here in the US.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    what do you mean by "subsidize with tax cuts" ?


    and they create fewer jobs here in the US because we don't allow them to DRILL here. if we opened up the West Coast, Alaska, the East Coast, etc to drilling; then we would see a surge of economic activity.


    but again, I have to ask; why (outside of general curiosity) should I care what the rich are making? I care what the poor are making, because I want to find wise ways of increasing it; but let the rich worry about themselves.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-05-11 at 03:07 AM.

  3. #343
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what do you mean by "subsidize with tax cuts" ?
    "Oil production is one of the most heavily subsidized businesses in America, with tax breaks available at almost every stage of the exploration and extraction process, according to an analysis by The New York Times. The tax breaks average about $4 billion a year, based on various government reports, and are preserved by the oil industry's massive political influence.

    The many subsidies in BP's (BP) disastrous Deepwater Horizon drilling venture, which resulted in the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history, are typical. Transocean (RIG), the owner of the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform, registered the rig in the Marshall Islands, where it is subject to lower taxes and less stringent safety regulations. The company moved its corporate headquarters overseas from Houston in 1999, saving $1.8 billion in taxes in its years abroad. It is headquartered in Switzerland now, where it has far fewer employees than in Houston.

    BP also gained huge tax benefits in leasing the Deepwater Horizon rig, writing off 70% of the platform's rent -- a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began, according to a letter sent to the Senate Finance Committee.

    Paying Much Lower Taxes Than Virtually Any Other Industry

    The Times reports: "According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9%, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25% for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry."

    For many small and midsize oil businesses, the tax on capital investments is so low that their returns on them are often higher after taxes than before.

    The government is now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the enormous Gulf oil spill cleanup. This, and attempts to curb the oil industry's tax breaks, are likely to encounter fierce opposition in Congress. The Times reports that the oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists since 2008, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which monitors political spending.

    The oil industry claims that cutting the subsidies and tax breaks threatens jobs and oil production. But a Treasury Department economist cited in 2009 a study that found oil prices and potential profits were so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease U.S. output by less than 0.5%."

    See full article from DailyFinance: Oil Companies Reap Billions in U.S. Subsidies and Tax Breaks - DailyFinance

    If we are to look at means testing for welfare recipients which I agree we should, why would we continue to provide welfare to oil companies that are making trillions of dollars? We are sharing in their costs but not in the record profits. How can we ever get our debt under control without means testing for corporate welfare?
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  4. #344
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    i'm not really seeing anything there that is all that awful. so the tax rates here forced them overseas (not surprising), and they write off their losses just like everyone else. i really can't see that as corporate welfare.

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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i'm not really seeing anything there that is all that awful. so the tax rates here forced them overseas (not surprising), and they write off their losses just like everyone else. i really can't see that as corporate welfare.
    "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

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    You have been presented with the facts and you make a intentional choice to reject the obvious implication of the facts. The right wing movement in this nation is based solely on just this sort of belief system which ignores facts, data and what is actually happening.

    Tax subsidies are corporate welfare. There is no way around it.

    Tax incentives favoring one company over another are corporate welfare as well as being inherently unfair to existing companies who were not given them.

    To willfully pretend they are not corporate welfare is a sad sign of right wing ideology and a sad indictment of what has happened to politics in America.
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  6. #346
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have no problem with means testing, and I think we should have the same thing for corporate welfare. For example, oil companies have been making trillions of dollars in profits and we still subsidize them with millions of taxpayer dollars and millions more in tax cuts and they create very few jobs here in the US.
    Oil and gas royalties bring in $6 billion in revenues to the government every year. That's just royalties. That doesn't include payroll taxes, income taxes, etc. Plus th taxes generated from the hundreds of thousands of jobs created all over the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #347
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

    Paul Simon
    The Boxer

    You have been presented with the facts and you make a intentional choice to reject the obvious implication of the facts. The right wing movement in this nation is based solely on just this sort of belief system which ignores facts, data and what is actually happening.

    Tax subsidies are corporate welfare. There is no way around it.
    the only "tax subsidy" i saw there was allowing companies to write off losses.

    if you want to get rid of that; i'm fine with doing so, but it should be done across the board. no picking of winners and losers.

    Tax incentives favoring one company over another are corporate welfare as well as being inherently unfair to existing companies who were not given them.
    all companies are allowed to write off losses. that was my point; it didn't look like the oil companies were getting anything that wasn't generally available. now, if they were getting actual subsidies (say, like big agribusiness does) then i would be 100% about getting rid of those.

  8. #348
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oil and gas royalties bring in $6 billion in revenues to the government every year. That's just royalties. That doesn't include payroll taxes, income taxes, etc. Plus th taxes generated from the hundreds of thousands of jobs created all over the country.
    gosh apdst; do you think there is a way that we could increase the revenue to the government from income taxes by oil industry jobs in the US?

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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Plenty of companies demand and get tax subsidies from governments to move into a community, or just remain in a community. That is corporate welfare.
    They demand that government spend monies on their behalf. That is corporate welfare.
    They demand incentives and sweeteners to entice them or keep them in a community besides tax subsidies. That is corporate welfare.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-05-11 at 11:51 AM.
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Plenty of companies demand and get tax subsidies from governments to move into a community, or just remain in a community. That is corporate welfare.
    yup; and at the federal level i'm against it.

    They demand that government spend monies on their behalf. That is corporate welfare.
    yup; and at all levels i'm against it.

    They demand incentives and sweeteners to entice them or keep them in a community besides tax subsidies. That is corporate welfare.
    agreed. and i'm generally against that too, but it depends more on the situation.

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