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Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #21
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What should we do, instead? Give the government all our money and let them distribute it as they see fit?
    No one suggests any such thing. But you might support workers more, like in Wisconsin, and maybe ask more of business and not just give them a pass and get next to nothing from them. Just a thought. . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    As long as we have a government that constinues to kill middle class jobs, the gap will keep getting wider.
    This is true, the mixing of corporatism and the government has effectively begun to shut down true free market capitalism. Through improper regulations, special treatment, subsidies, bail outs, and give always the government has worked quite effectively with the established corporate base to shut down proper competition and consequence from the market. The goal, of course, is to remove economic mobility. Mobility does not just mean poor people can get rich, but it also means that rich people can become poor through bad choices and business decisions. If you can close down mobility, the rich do not become poor. Additionally, to establish a proper aristocracy, you need to eliminate the middle class.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #23
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    A very small part of it does go down. It's true that a rising tide lifts all boats, it's just that some boats are being lifted at a much faster rate than others.
    Take a small example, since econmics is really a sum of lots of small transactions.

    Let's say you and your neighbor farm some land, equal plots sizes, similar everything.

    One day he buys some modified seed, that results in him getting 20% more yield on his crop. Same plot as you, same work, same seed cost. The next year he changes again to the newest seed, again getting a 20% gain. You don't know this, you are just plugging away using your original seed. He's now 44% ahead of you in terms of crop revenue (income). After some years of inequality, you hear about this new seed and you start using it too. You're now both equal again at crop yield, (although he still has a few years of greater income compounding since he made the change earlier)

    It appears to be common sense that:
    1. inequality of income is not a problem in this scenario
    2. inequality does not somehow take from the bottom unfairly
    3. inequality does not somehow made it more difficult to close the gap (directly)

    Help me reason this out. Because when I control for other variables, the "inequality" part doesn't seem to lead to anything other than the fact that some people achieve more, and some do not.
    Last edited by Mach; 02-24-11 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    These stories never seem to lose their glamour. Unfortunately for the people that write them and like them, they are based on erroneous assumptions.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...-problems.html

    Follow the link and you'll see why this problem is a non-issue.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #25
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one suggests any such thing. But you might support workers more, like in Wisconsin,
    The way that Obama supported workers, by killing their jobs? I would rather not have that kind of support.

    and maybe ask more of business nd not just give them a pass and get next to nothing from them. Just a thought. . . .
    Ask more of business, in terms of what?
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #26
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is true, the mixing of corporatism and the government has effectively begun to shut down true free market capitalism.
    Begun? We've not been close to a free market economy for decades if not at least a century or more.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #27
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is true, the mixing of corporatism and the government has effectively begun to shut down true free market capitalism. Through improper regulations, special treatment, subsidies, bail outs, and give always the government has worked quite effectively with the established corporate base to shut down proper competition and consequence from the market. The goal, of course, is to remove economic mobility. Mobility does not just mean poor people can get rich, but it also means that rich people can become poor through bad choices and business decisions. If you can close down mobility, the rich do not become poor. Additionally, to establish a proper aristocracy, you need to eliminate the middle class.
    You give a different list than he does, and I might agree a couple of those are problems, like the bailouts. And I agree entirely that we need the middle class.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #28
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The way that Obama supported workers, by killing their jobs? I would rather not have that kind of support.



    Ask more of business, in terms of what?
    Not being bailed out. Paying their fair share. The wealthy as well. And you really should look at all our leaders, past and present, and not just Obama.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #29
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not being bailed out. Paying their fair share. The wealthy as well. And you really should look at all our leaders, past and present, and not just Obama.
    How do you define fair?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #30
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How do you define fair?
    I suspect there is room for negotiation on that, but I've seen taxes reduced to next to zero and them leave the country anyway. At some level, I would like them to see themselves as part of this community, seeking not only to do well, but to do good for those here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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