Page 29 of 38 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 379

Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #281
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your first link takes me to a post by Boo Radley, where he says, "You think this is evidence? Not sure it's even evidence let alone proof. If anything it raises the question, but it doesn't settle it."
    Click on the link he quotes.

    Your second link takes me to a post by you where there is some confused ranting and a couple of charts, but a point was never made.
    The point was about the folly of following income by class. It's a worthless study because the composition of the groups changes over time. Those charts prove it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #282
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It matters when you make leaps about our overall work ethic, about what should be done for everyone, and somehow link it to the topic of this thread. It matters.
    If it's not work ethic, then tell me some alternate scenario that explains why they're rejecting 70% of those job offers.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #283
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Our middle class is falling not growing. 7 out of 10 Americans now live below the poverty line (4 person household income below $22,050).
    Lol! Where do you get these stats? First off, that definition of poverty is completely arbitrary. It does not account for the fact that some places are much cheaper to live than others. Making that salary in Alabama might not be that bad, but in California it would be horrible. Also, does that take into account welfare benefits and food stamps, free public school, etc.? Because our incomes would surely be higher if not for those programs we have to pay for.

    So we should aspire to work harder for less money because $22,000 is just way too much money for a family of four. The middle class is not growing along with the GDP thats the problem. Not everybody's boat is floating at the same level. That is what this thread is about.
    The 25 and 75th quartile of incomes ARE growing, so I think you don't know what you're talking about. Not that following those statistics mean anything, but average income is rising for everybody.

    All the data shows the gap between the rich and the poor has grown.
    Maybe the nonsensical census bureau data. Take a look at IRS data, it tells a completely different story because it follows individual incomes rather than groups whose composition changes over time.

    Because of the progressive tax system mainly. As it has been weakened, so has the middle class.
    Progressive taxes make the middle class richer? Lol. How does taking money from people make people richer?

    Doing better than a family of four on $22,000? Yeah what a pipe dream a living wage is.
    It is a pipe dream as it has no definition. And why should a company hire you for a living wage if you don't produce for them a living wage? If you want more money then try getting the mercy of someone who actually produces (charity).

    You are calling our parents socialists and you want me to be serious?
    Social security, welfare, etc. These are all socialist ideas and programs.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #284
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If it's not work ethic, then tell me some alternate scenario that explains why they're rejecting 70% of those job offers.
    Drugs maybe? Limited ability due to poor education? I don't know, but I wouldn't assume any of them, my two or yours. Instead, you have to be able to show it in some way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #285
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:34 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,067

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Drugs maybe? Limited ability due to poor education? I don't know, but I wouldn't assume any of them, my two or yours. Instead, you have to be able to show it in some way.
    So poorly educated drug addicts don't accept job offers.

    OK, what now?

  6. #286
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Lol! Where do you get these stats?
    The 2010 US Census.

    First off, that definition of poverty is completely arbitrary. It does not account for the fact that some places are much cheaper to live than others. Making that salary in Alabama might not be that bad, but in California it would be horrible.
    Its horrible everywhere, it would just be more horrible in California.

    Also, does that take into account welfare benefits and food stamps, free public school, etc.?
    Is that what you want, dependence on social programs. Don't we have to pay for those?

    Because our incomes would surely be higher if not for those programs we have to pay for.
    Exactly my point.

    The 25 and 75th quartile of incomes ARE growing, so I think you don't know what you're talking about. Not that following those statistics mean anything, but average income is rising for everybody.
    Not as fast as increased costs are rising, that is why 7 out of 10 Americans are now poor.

    Maybe the nonsensical census bureau data. Take a look at IRS data, it tells a completely different story because it follows individual incomes rather than groups whose composition changes over time.
    The IRS does not include info on those that make too little income to report, so you are only getting part of the picture. The Census looks at everyone.

    Progressive taxes make the middle class richer? Lol. How does taking money from people make people richer?
    Why don't you ask your grandparents? They prospered under our progressive tax system. The US progressive tax system was designed by our forefathers to tax those according to the wealth they possess. Those with greater wealth are taxed at a greater share than those with lesser wealth. They were aware that as it is not possible to get blood from a turnip, in order to pay our bills, the wealthy would have to be taxed at a greater rate. This allowed people to move from the poor class to a middle class. Since Reagan and Bush slashed our countries progressive tax system, our middle class is now moving downward again.

    It is a pipe dream as it has no definition. And why should a company hire you for a living wage if you don't produce for them a living wage? If you want more money then try getting the mercy of someone who actually produces (charity).
    If someone needs full-time help and a person performs that full-time task, he should be paid a living wage. Without it he will require welfare, which you are also against. You leave no options. Either pay a living wage or have people on welfare, pick one.

    Social security, welfare, etc. These are all socialist ideas and programs.
    "Are there no workhouses? Are there no jails?"
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-03-11 at 02:29 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #287
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,445

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    After 40 years and trillions of dollars, the gap is still getting wider. Anyone think that wealth redistribution may not be working?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #288
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Drugs maybe? Limited ability due to poor education? I don't know, but I wouldn't assume any of them, my two or yours. Instead, you have to be able to show it in some way.
    It's not limited ability since they're getting the job offers. And if it's drugs then that's still work ethic.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #289
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The 2010 US Census.
    Exactly the problem. It follows trends of groups, not individuals.

    Its horrible everywhere, it would just be more horrible in California.
    With the benefits you get it's not bad at all.

    Is that what you want, dependence on social programs. Don't we have to pay for those?
    If we didn't have to pay for them we would have more disposable income. This means more investing, more production, better quality of life.

    Not as fast as increased costs are rising, that is why 7 out of 10 Americans are now poor.
    7 out of 10 are "poor" because of the arbitrary definition of poor.

    The IRS does not include info on those that make too little income to report, so you are only getting part of the picture. The Census looks at everyone.
    That's very few people. The fact remains that census data is unreliable because the composition of the groups changes over time.

    Why don't you ask your grandparents? They prospered under our progressive tax system. The US progressive tax system was designed by our forefathers to tax those according to the wealth they possess. Those with greater wealth are taxed at a greater share than those with lesser wealth. They were aware that as it is not possible to get blood from a turnip, in order to pay our bills, the wealthy would have to be taxed at a greater rate. This allowed people to move from the poor class to a middle class. Since Reagan and Bush slashed our countries progressive tax system, our middle class is now moving downward again.
    First off, most of the wealth is in the middle class. This is true of any bell-shaped curve. Secondly, the old system was filled with many tax exemptions that really benefited the rich because they knew how to get them. Lastly, progressive taxation does not make anyone richer. Leaving more money in the hands of the rich means they can invest more which furnishes more jobs for those in the lower and middle classes. That raises their standard of living in a sustainable way.

    If someone needs full-time help and a person performs that full-time task, he should be paid a living wage. Without it he will require welfare, which you are also against. You leave no options. Either pay a living wage or have people on welfare, pick one.
    I choose neither. Charity can fill the void. Besides, this seems like it would be a rare scenario, depending again on how you define a living wage.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #290
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    After 40 years and trillions of dollars, the gap is still getting wider. Anyone think that wealth redistribution may not be working?
    Its actually closer to 30 years but you are exactly right, our debt problems began with the slashing of this countries progressive tax rates in 1981. It is clear that redistibution of wealth is hurting our economy.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Page 29 of 38 FirstFirst ... 192728293031 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •