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Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #251
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Yeah Fox news is like a stream of pure retardation to me... that sounds half the people in america. Weird, that.
    Of all the things to talk about in this thread, you bring up Fox News? You're really obsessed with that channel, aren't you?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #252
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    That's complete bull****. Their middle class is growing so much you can google all day and never get to the end of discussion of the booming growth. It's on every radio, every station, every TV at some point or another. How are you peddling this nonsnese? It's like you're a flat-earther or something, christ.

    Creating a more capitalist market and opening open foreign investment (capitalist investment) has done the exact ****ing opposite of the crap you are spewing.
    The fact is ENORMOUS numbers of people are being lifted out of poverty into middle and upper class. Historically unprescedented numbers.
    The fact is that some who remain poor, remain poor. <- DUR
    Where are you talking about? China or here? Here, Census data shows us that more and more of the middle class have been slipping into poverty. 1 in 7 Americans are now officially poor.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #253
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Why not look at the way income has been changing for the 75th quartile and 25th quartile of the nation? Because that group, which is the best definition of the middle class, has seen tremendous growth. Not that the data really means anything anyway, other than that as a whole our nation is becoming richer, not that some mythical middle class is growing.
    Because we were discussing the middle class, not the upper class.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #254
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Where are you talking about? China or here? Here, Census data shows us that more and more of the middle class have been slipping into poverty. 1 in 7 Americans are now officially poor.
    Officially poor by what definition?

    Read this thread as census data is worthless and the proof is all there.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ker-pay-3.html

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #255
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because we were discussing the middle class, not the upper class.
    The IQR of income is the upper class? Statistics has really changed since the last time I took it then.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #256
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Where are you talking about? China or here? Here, Census data shows us that more and more of the middle class have been slipping into poverty. 1 in 7 Americans are now officially poor.
    The response quoted was China.

    But we also had the same results in the U.S. Our economy is much slower now having reached a relative equilibrium. That is, now that people are relatively free to pursue whatever they want, you won't be seeing the meteroic rise of the middle class that we have now in China and India, that we had in the U.S. years back.

    How do you boost a slow economy? You engage in business in the growing markets. How do we do that? Capitalism.
    If you want to grow the economy and provide more opportunity and prosperity for everyone and anyone, you grow. All capitalism does is help maximize whatever growth potential there is.

    Being reasonable, the fallacies you are making (or the sources you cite are making) are:
    1. comparing lowest poor to highest wealthy.
    in a healthy economy this distance should be *as large as possible*.

    2. using income brackets as a class structure
    *people routinely move up and down the income brackets, most notably being poor in their teens early twenties, and negative income in retirement. And, according to CBO, besides these typical swings, there are routine changes in incomes during all periods.

    Historically there can be no real debate that capitalism is a wildly positive force in terms of lifting people out of poverty, growing a middle class, and maximizing freedom.
    Last edited by Mach; 03-02-11 at 12:58 PM.

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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Officially poor by what definition?

    Read this thread as census data is worthless and the proof is all there.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ker-pay-3.html

    Ha! Opinion over facts? Not for me my friend!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #258
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Then let's say that they are not working even when the opportunity is provided to them.
    Some are not. As to why, we don't know.

    Then I would ask you to come forward with your own data in response. You've had plenty of opportunities but all you've given is your opinions. That and $5 won't even get me a cup of coffee.
    Data like what? I can't think of any data that would prove it any way. Do you know of any study into reasons why? I don't. But we can't assign reasons without doing something that addresses the reasoning.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    The response quoted was China.

    But we also had the same results in the U.S. Our economy is much slower now having reached a relative equilibrium. That is, now that people are relatively free to pursue whatever they want, you won't be seeing the meteroic rise of the middle class that we have now in China and India, that we had in the U.S. years back.

    How do you boost a slow economy? You engage in business in the growing markets. How do we do that? Capitalism.
    If you want to grow the economy and provide more opportunity and prosperity for everyone and anyone, you grow. All capitalism does is help maximize whatever growth potential there is.
    You mean cutting the taxes for the wealthy and deregulating? That is what has brought us to where we are today?

    Being reasonable, the fallacies you are making (or the sources you cite are making) are:
    Do you mean the Census statistics?

    1. comparing lowest poor to highest wealthy.
    in a healthy economy this distance should be *as large as possible*.
    Like in China?

    2. using income brackets as a class structure
    *people routinely move up and down the income brackets, most notably being poor in their teens early twenties, and negative income in retirement. And, according to CBO, besides these typical swings, there are routine changes in incomes during all periods.
    For the last decade they have been moving in one direction, down.

    Historically there can be no real debate that capitalism is a wildly positive force in terms of lifting people out of poverty, growing a middle class, and maximizing freedom.
    I have no problem with a properly regulated capitalist market with progressive taxation as we had in this country during its most prosperous time.
    This what we need to return to.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #260
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Ha! Opinion over facts? Not for me my friend!
    LOL!

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