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Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #141
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Baseless? So you would argue that those at the beginging of something aren't more likely to reap benefits than those are the end of something? I mean, there was more unexplored land, more resources, less people, more promise, less competition internationally. The time periods are so different, I think you're unwise to blow this off so quickly.
    We are much more technologically advanced. I mean, if what you're saying was true, then why are the countries that have many comparative opportunities for growth not growing? Shouldn't Africa then be a booming continent?

    I gave you a couple of timelines, and there is more, to show that this was common and not limited to just one.
    All of the examples that you provided were based on subjective value judgments. Who cares about that?

    So is a lot of what you're arguing.
    I'm basing everything from an objective standard, you're the one bringing subjective opinions in here.

    You're really missing the point.
    No. You think that just because something is inevented that only a few years later everyone should have it? Why do you ignore the central problem of economics: scarcity?

    Sure it was, or more than now. Not sure I would use the words A LOT.
    The dollar has lost 98% of its value since the beginning of this century. I certainly would use the words A LOT.

    And people less able to afford even them. The product becomes cheaper, and in some ways less quality, and people lose the way to make a good living. great stuff that.
    So we're poorer than we were 30 years ago? Interesting.

    It speaks to the need for unions.
    If you want to join one that's fine, but there's a reason that so many are not part of a union even though they could conceivably be in one.

    I wouldn't go so either or in my thinking, but as presenting prosperity as the single answer, you're wrong. People fought to end tham and it took laws, regulations, and not just propserity.
    Your own post showed that the laws did not work. The laws were violated anyway. We needed to become richer before child labor ended. There are countries around the world that have outlawed it but still have it, and guess what, it's because they're poor!

    Sure. But today they are neither working or starving. Wouldn't you say that is better yet?
    Yes, thanks to prosperity, children and all of us live much better lives.

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  2. #142
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You think this is evidence? Not sure it's even evidence let alone proof. If anything it raises the question, but it doesn't settle it.
    Mind finding evidence to the contrary because you've offered nothing substantial, only empty rhetoric. My post actually had real numbers and historical data. All I've heard from you is baseless speculation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #143
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    The high taxes on the rich which have resulted in the top 5% paying more federal income taxes and death taxes than the rest of the country combined is what has caused the gap. Not because the taxes are not high enough but because we have subsidized dependence and sloth among millions who now look to the rich and the government to take care of them

    Drug addicts are not good workers. Entitlement addicts are rarely ambitious



  4. #144
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Oh - so people who are employed FULL time are lazy, irresponsible and stupid?

    INCOME means you WORK to EARN IT - you know, a JOB.
    INCOME does not necessarily INCLUDE one's WELFARE or their amassed wealth - only a SMALL percentage of the population overall GETS welfare anyway.

    Before I became a stay at home Mom I was employed full time, had two kids, and I earned $8.00 an hour. That put me at just over $15,000 a year. I was NOT lazy, NOT stupid, NOT irresponsible. MOST people who struggle financially and are gainfully employed. . . They make ends meet - but don't rake in the dough in excess.

    Your thought process is why so many college kids come out of college EXPECTING to have a job just because the got a degree in Liberal Arts.

    And what you're referring to is *strictkly income* - not *wealth* - Wealth can amass on it's own once you have it. (Property values increase, stock values increase) - you can be a lazy fat bastard and do nothing your whole life and die wealthier than you were when you inherited it from your Mum.
    None of that was pointed at you or folks like you.

    I'm saying that there are masses of people who will do anthing they can to avoid working. And we've all worked with the "dead weight" folks, many of which have lost their gravy train during this unemployment downturn.

    Good people are hard to find. I will attest to that.

  5. #145
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Some of those high costs can be lowered by significantly lowering the ridiculous compensation for those at or near the top. Start there if you have any real integrity about corporate expenses .
    100 or so executives vs. many million overpaid union workers who want 10X what a similarly skilled chinese or Indian worker will take?
    the Highest corporate tax in the free world--

    I understand your envy of the overpaid executives and yes there are a bunch

    but that is peanuts compared to government imposed costs and taxes combined with overpriced labor

    and executive salary is within the sole control of the company



  6. #146
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You think this is evidence?
    the person who pastes opinion pieces from the university of wisconsin and EZRA KLEIN questions evidence?

    LOL!

  7. #147
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The high taxes on the rich which have resulted in the top 5% paying more federal income taxes and death taxes than the rest of the country combined is what has caused the gap. Not because the taxes are not high enough but because we have subsidized dependence and sloth among millions who now look to the rich and the government to take care of them

    Drug addicts are not good workers. Entitlement addicts are rarely ambitious
    So - tax the rich less and it'll somehow narrow the gap?
    That makes no sense - the gap is the gap. The gap will always be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    None of that was pointed at you or folks like you.

    I'm saying that there are masses of people who will do anthing they can to avoid working. And we've all worked with the "dead weight" folks, many of which have lost their gravy train during this unemployment downturn.

    Good people are hard to find. I will attest to that.
    Which is true - of course that's true.
    less than 1/3 of those on welfare fall into that category. . .which of the lower quadrile of the populus. And they, like others - if after a few years of being on they don't fix their lives up a bit - they're out of the system. Woosh - gone.

    It's such a small percentage of the population I'm not about to let their foul oversights and problems in life guide me to want to end the system.

    It was a lot higher before 1993, sure - that's when they reformed the system and seriously limited the number of years they were on support - it doesn't work that way anymore. People expecting a lifetime of handouts are in for a defeat.

    Thus - while in - it's essential to take advantage of relocation, outreach and other progrmas geared to provide childcare, education - and those essentials to build a welfare-free life.

    That doesn't usher people into the top quadrile, of course - but juts above the poverty line - that's where most people are, right now - even if they've never been on any type of welfare program.
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  8. #148
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Mind finding evidence to the contrary because you've offered nothing substantial, only empty rhetoric. My post actually had real numbers and historical data. All I've heard from you is baseless speculation.
    I'm not sure my claim is the affirmative claim. I think those who say we no longer have a work ethic would have to present the evidence. I think that is how it works.

    However, here's how one young person responded to the claim:

    Debunking The Millennials' Work Ethic "Problem"

    Debunking The Millennials' Work Ethic "Problem" - Erica Williams - The Conversation - Harvard Business Review

    But I would argue the past always looks better than it was, and people have alwys criticised the present. This is not new. But it is much harder to prove than it is to jump on that bandwagon. Our business in this country goes on everyday, just as it always has. Most people work, and hold jobs. Some work more than one job. For every story you can tell me of someone being lazy, I can give you two of someone beating odds, workingn hard and overachieving. It's just, as it has always been, more popular to see the class half empty of not completely dry.

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  9. #149
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The high taxes on the rich which have resulted in the top 5% paying more federal income taxes and death taxes than the rest of the country combined is what has caused the gap. Not because the taxes are not high enough but because we have subsidized dependence and sloth among millions who now look to the rich and the government to take care of them

    Drug addicts are not good workers. Entitlement addicts are rarely ambitious
    Still repeating that same LIE that there are such things as death taxes. Even after you yourself admitted that they were Estate Taxes and used your own state of Ohio as evidence.

    But maybe you have found some Death Taxes in the law in the last week? We eagerly await the verifiable and objective evidence of that discovery.

    In the absence of it, its just another right wing term designed to pervert the true meaning of another term for ideological purposes.
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  10. #150
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    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    So - tax the rich less and it'll somehow narrow the gap?
    That makes no sense - the gap is the gap. The gap will always be.



    Which is true - of course that's true.
    less than 1/3 of those on welfare fall into that category. . .which of the lower quadrile of the populus. And they, like others - if after a few years of being on they don't fix their lives up a bit - they're out of the system. Woosh - gone.

    It's such a small percentage of the population I'm not about to let their foul oversights and problems in life guide me to want to end the system.

    It was a lot higher before 1993, sure - that's when they reformed the system and seriously limited the number of years they were on support - it doesn't work that way anymore. People expecting a lifetime of handouts are in for a defeat.

    Thus - while in - it's essential to take advantage of relocation, outreach and other progrmas geared to provide childcare, education - and those essentials to build a welfare-free life.

    That doesn't usher people into the top quadrile, of course - but juts above the poverty line - that's where most people are, right now - even if they've never been on any type of welfare program.
    what is your solution

    and why do the rich have a duty to pay more and more so those who don't make it can get more stuff

    for you to believe the crap you and others spew you must think that the failure of the many to become rich is due to the FAULT of the wealthy



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