Page 13 of 38 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 379

Thread: Rich-Poor gap widening

  1. #121
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:46 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,852

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    from Turtle Dude

    a city knows that say Toyota plans on building a new plant. so that city promises tax abatements for toyota if they build a factory in that city

    or a city builds an NFL team a stadium to coax that team to stay when other cities are also trying to lure them away

    lefties would call that corporate welfare
    what I call it is quid pro quo-the city wants the business so they bargain to get the jobs, the payroll taxes and all the other stuff a big business can bring.
    and from his fellow worshipper at the same altar, Mach

    Libterarians want smaller government, including less government in big business, to reduce corporate welfare.
    For two people who seem to agree constantly and hit the like button for each others posts, you need to get together and discuss why you contradict each other so badly in these statements.

    Either you want government to get involved in picking winners and losers and setting up an uneven playing field to help businesses and corporations or you do not want that to happen. You cannot have it both ways and your ideology which you both seem to subscribe to cannot have it both ways.
    Of course, what this does is perfectly illustrate the basic contradiction in much of right wing ideology as well as the rampant hypocrisy festering through it like a virulent disease eating away at it from within and eventually killing it.

    We hear the hollow cliche over and over and over again in thread after thread that "we want smaller government". What a bunch of crap. What you do want is for government to pick winners and losers and as long as the winners worship at your same altar, you are very happy with that outcome.

    Your ideological cliches are just lipstick on a pig.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-25-11 at 07:27 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #122
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    there is no evidence taxes significantly effect jobs.
    Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    you might support workers more, like in Wisconsin
    you mean like the gramma who paid a half mil into social security and got SQUAT in return cuz she died a few months too soon?


  3. #123
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    income equality is a very petty goal, envious, divisive, pitting one group of americans against another

    andrew cuomo's state of the state, jan 5, 2011:

    The State of the State begins with an honest analysis of the crisis that we face. In government, as in life, you can never solve a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it. The economic recession has taken an especially hard hit on the State of New York. In 2009, we had a twenty-six year high in unemployment, roughly 800,000 New Yorkers are now unemployed, hundreds of thousands more are under-employed. We have the worst business tax climate in the nation, period. Our taxes are 66% higher than the national average. Upstate is truly an economic crisis. In real GDP, from 2001-2006, upstate New York grew about 1.7% per year while the average in the nation was 2.7%. The costs of pensions are exploding, 1.3 billion in 1998-1999, projected for 2013, 6.2 billion - a 476% increase and its only getting worse.

    The State of New York spends too much money, it is that blunt and it is that simple. Our spending has far exceeded the rate of inflation. From 1994-2009, inflation was about 2.7% per year; medicaid went up over 5% per year and education went up over 6% per year. We just can’t afford those rates of increase. State spending actually outpaced income growth. State spending increased just under 6%, personal income growth was only 3.8%.

    And most damaging, our expenses in this state far exceed revenue. We’ve been focusing on this year and the deficit this year, which is a very large deficit about $10 billion, and that is a problem and it is a major problem; what’s worse, is it’s not just about this year. Next year, the problem goes to $14 billion. The year after, the deficit goes to $17 billion. This is not a one year problem my friends. This is a fundamental economic realignment for the State of New York.

    Not only do we spend too much, but we get too little in return. We spend more money on education than any state in the nation and we are number 34 in terms of results. We spend more money on Medicaid than any other state in the nation and we are number 21 in results. We spend about $1.6 billion per year in economic development and we are number 50 in terms of results.

    And the large government we have is all too often responsive to the special interests over the people of the State of New York. The proof is in the pudding. And New Yorkers are voting with their feet. Two million New Yorkers have left the State over the past decade. What does this say? It says we need radical reform, it says we need a new approach, we need a new perspective and we need it now. This is a fundamental realignment for the state.

    And we have to relearn the lesson our founders knew and we have to put up a sign that says New York is open for business. We get it. And this is going to be a business friendly State.

    The property taxes in New York are killing New Yorkers. Thirteen of the sixteen highest tax counties are in New York when assessed by home value. In absolute dollars, Westchester County has the highest property taxes in the United States of America. Nassau County the second highest property taxes in the United State of America. It has to end, it has to end this year. We have to hold the line on taxes for now and reduce taxes in the future. New York has no future as the tax capital of the nation. Our young people will not stay. Our business will not come. This has to change.
    GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor

    there's your political landscape, progressives

    your opinions, against that kind of gust, are just little puffs of hot air

    party on

  4. #124
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    any proof of that

    and I love what lefties and populists call corporate welfare

    for example

    a city knows that say Toyota plans on building a new plant. so that city promises tax abatements for toyota if they build a factory in that city

    or a city builds an NFL team a stadium to coax that team to stay when other cities are also trying to lure them away

    lefties would call that corporate welfare

    what I call it is quid pro quo-the city wants the business so they bargain to get the jobs, the payroll taxes and all the other stuff a big business can bring.

    what exactly do we get by funding sloth and dependency? more sloth and dependency and more voters who vote away our wealth
    Here: from a textbook titled "Social Problems" by Macionis - 4th Edition: on Corporate Welfare.
    Just for you . . . because you seem to be the one NOT understanding what IS "corporate Welfare"

    (Chapter 10 - pg 268)
    "Problems of the US Political Economy"

    In the United States, most goods and services are produced by corporations. In the United States, almost 6Million business (of almost 30 million total) are incoporated. Of tehse, the largest 100 corporations are giants, each with more than $35Billion in assets. Together, tehse 100 businesses are responsible for most corporate production in the United States. . .

    Government provides aid in the form of subsidies, price controls, outright cash grants to businesses, especially when officials fear that a large industry might fail and cause damage to the overall economy. In the 1970's, for example, such fears led the federal government to provide financial assistance to bail out the Chrysler Corporation. Similarly, in the 1980's, the federal governemnt provided $500 Billion to head off a collapse of the savings and loan industry. In 2008 and 2009, the government provided more than $1 Trillion to large financial corporations and major automakers to prevent their collapse.
    (Chapter 10 - pg 271)
    Social Policy: corporate Welfare: Government Handouts for Big Business

    Who benefits most from "welfare" in the United States? If you are like most people, you would answer that most of the beenfits go to needy people. In reality, however, government programs provide more benefits to corporations than to poor people.

    Why do companies get such special treatment? With all their wealth, corporations have great power. In addition, many states and cities are eager to increase the number of available jobs; all a large company has to do is announce a willingness to relocate, and the otffers from state and local government - in the form of low-interest loans, tax relief, free utilities, and other beefits - come pouring in.

    Some people call government aid to corporations "public-private partnerships." Such aid, they explain, creates jobs that may be needed by communities hard hit by business closings. Critics counter that handouts for big business amounts to corporate welfare. Furthermore, the amounts provided are often far greater than any promise of new jobs justifies. In 1991, for example, Indiana offered a $451 million incentive package to United Airlines to build an aircraft amaintenance facility in the state. United built the facility and created 6,300 new jobs. Some simple math shows that the cost of these new jobs came to a whopping $72,000 per person hired. . . .(it lists quite a few of these examples . . . .)

    Across the United States, even in good times, corporations benefit to the tune of tens of billions of dollars each year. In 2008 and 2009, government "bailouts" were far greater. Totaling more than $1 Trillion in an effort to bring an end to the most serious recession since the 1930s. This is about fifty times the amount that the government spends omn welfare programs that benefit poor families.
    Talk about dependency, hunh? It's not just occasional support for a few businesses here and there. It's repeated support for the SAME ONES over and over - and in the same industries.

    So - tell me - if corporations are SO large and SO wonderful - why do they fail? Not just once - but twice, three times? Where is their cutoff or capped bailout limit (there is none).

    The auto industry RAKES IN Billions every year in self-driving profit through auto and parts sales, etc. But that's NOT ENOUGH for them - they KEEP failing.
    Same thing with banks - they KEEP failing.

    And that's acceptable to you? Continual bailout for the same bull**** inability to MANAGE their fat-cash-cow business well? Why isn't their profit of Billions every year SUFFICIENT? Why do they KEEP failing?

    But - in your mind - if a FAMILY runs into a hard time - they don't deserve ANYTHING at all? No housing assistance, no food, nothing?

    Why not - what makes a failing and incapable corporation *so special* but a small group of people *so worthless* to you?

    And if you're claiming that these business provide a necessity or employ people - you can suck it - their continual FAILURE is why we have had so many problems in the last century. Their "benefit" seems to outweigh their "good" - and they could care less about the lives they force their chunked employees INTO when they fold and close up shop. So - it doesn't even matter to them, either.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #125
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,663

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    How is the government killing middle class jobs? Last time I checked the government has not outsourced any jobs to India. Perhaps you mean they have not done enough to protect American jobs, perhaps by not leving steeper taxes on imports to give companies an incentive to manufactuer domestically.... Thats pretty progressive thinking for a conservative, don't you think, Apdst? Maybe you are really a closet liberal?
    making business costs too high is what causes that



  6. #126
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,663

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Here: from a textbook titled "Social Problems" by Macionis - 4th Edition: on Corporate Welfare.
    Just for you . . . because you seem to be the one NOT understanding what IS "corporate Welfare"

    (Chapter 10 - pg 268)


    (Chapter 10 - pg 271)


    Talk about dependency, hunh? It's not just occasional support for a few businesses here and there. It's repeated support for the SAME ONES over and over - and in the same industries.

    So - tell me - if corporations are SO large and SO wonderful - why do they fail? Not just once - but twice, three times? Where is their cutoff or capped bailout limit (there is none).

    The auto industry RAKES IN Billions every year in self-driving profit through auto and parts sales, etc. But that's NOT ENOUGH for them - they KEEP failing.
    Same thing with banks - they KEEP failing.

    And that's acceptable to you? Continual bailout for the same bull**** inability to MANAGE their fat-cash-cow business well? Why isn't their profit of Billions every year SUFFICIENT? Why do they KEEP failing?

    But - in your mind - if a FAMILY runs into a hard time - they don't deserve ANYTHING at all? No housing assistance, no food, nothing?

    Why not - what makes a failing and incapable corporation *so special* but a small group of people *so worthless* to you?

    And if you're claiming that these business provide a necessity or employ people - you can suck it - their continual FAILURE is why we have had so many problems in the last century. Their "benefit" seems to outweigh their "good" - and they could care less about the lives they force their chunked employees INTO when they fold and close up shop. So - it doesn't even matter to them, either.
    so the auto industry doesn't have unions pushing for that

    total FAIL on our part It was the UNIONS that pushed for the GM bailout

    and who gets hurt the most if a bank fails

    and where have i supported bailouts

    seems I am not the one with understanding problems



  7. #127
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Oh - and here's concerning Who votes - since you seem hellbent on thinking that all the poor people on welfare hit up the polls and support Democrats and Liberal measures and candidates.
    It's actually presented in a nifty bar-chart. But I'll type it out for ya.

    "Voting by Income Level"
    The percentage of adult who reported voting in the 2008 president election. A clear pattern is prsent. As income goes up, so does the likelihood of voting.

    (chart statistics:
    Less than $10,000: 49% voted
    10,000-to-19,999: 54% voted
    20,000-29,999: 56% voted
    30,000-39,999: 62% voted
    40,000-49,999: 65% voted
    50,000-74,999: 71% voted
    75,000-99,999: 76% voted
    100,000 and more: 80% voted
    As you can see - in the last main election teh people who EARN LESS are also the ones who VOTE LESS.

    So stop repeating the same "the poor people vote for their own welfare supporters" because it's OBVIOUSLY not true.

    To your relief (and mine- we both support capitalism for it's many goods)
    In yet another neato chart of statistics is our rankings of "Capitalism" and where we actually fall compared to other countries - they reference this as a % of GDP ratio - the % of GDP which is produced by the Private Sector VS the % of GDP which is produced by the Public sector (government)
    For the US 82% of the GDP is Private - 18% is public.
    Germany and Australia: 76% Private / 24% public.
    Italy: 75% Private / 25% public
    Canada: 74% Private, 26% public
    France: 70% Private / 30% public
    Norway: 68% Private / 32% public
    Sweden: 64% Private / 36% public

    We're higher than the countries which we consider ourselves to be kin to as far as the production of our Private-sector. . . making us the least 'socialist' of them all.

    Overall - however you cut it up and serve it - there is nothing wrong with assisting those who need some assistance . . . if we *don't* (like how we use to NOT provide assistance for our people) then various ranking on different scales of 'quality of life' - 'life expectancy' - and so on - will drop and we'll be more akin to 3rd world countries than any of us want to ever be.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 02-25-11 at 10:18 AM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  8. #128
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,680

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    I dont know why the notion of the gap between the rich and poor is surprising to anyone. There wont be a true economic recovery until we revitalize our industrial base. That wont happen until the unions and labor scrap the past and start fresh and it will NEVER happen if the unions insist on compensation packages that have priced the American worker out of the industrial labor market. Its ironic that a bunch of people that claim to champion the cause of the poor also remain steadfast supporters of half of the component that has destryoed the job market in the country (ironic though not surprising since the Unions also support their beloved party which they believe will fix everything because the politicians actually 'care' about the poor ).

  9. #129
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so the auto industry doesn't have unions pushing for that

    total FAIL on our part It was the UNIONS that pushed for the GM bailout

    and who gets hurt the most if a bank fails

    and where have i supported bailouts

    seems I am not the one with understanding problems
    To me this issue doesn't concern Unions in the least - I'm sure that equates with some people - but not for me.

    My point in all of this is to abate your fears that we're turning socialist, that we help the poor too much, and that they run to the polls every election to vote in the political party that will keep them on welfare. Obviously all of these concerns are baseless and not reflecting the reality of all of these situations.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 02-25-11 at 10:21 AM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  10. #130
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:40 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,069

    Re: Rich-Poor gap widening

    The gap is widening because a significant percentage of people in this country have no work ethic whatsoever, and no money-management plan beyond buying flat screens and XBoxes with every nickel they get their hands on.

    1/3 of this country is beyond stupid, lazy, and irresponsible. They bring the averages down across the board.

Page 13 of 38 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •