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Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-energy

Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So you're saying that we aren't going to eventually face an energy crisis?

If the government stays out of it, we won't. If there's a, "crisis", it will be because the government created it, just like the government is trying to pass global warming legislation.

I'm not doing this to fit any kind of Agenda or tax you more or take over your life apdst, I'm worried about this because it's a genuine threat to all of us.

I think you've bought into too much of the warmer propaganda. You can't start screaming, "energy crisis", after the government has shut down domestic oil and gas production.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Part of the reasoning for more renewable energy is national independence. So that our leaders aren't stuck eating out of Saudi Arabia or Egypt's hand in fear. Currently many leaders in the middle east know that they have control over our nation, because they control the oil flow.

Besides, we are already seeing hybrids and electric cars (we've been seeing them for decades, but up until recently they have often been suppressed by people on oil company payrolls) that are selling quite well. We're seeing cars that will go over 80 miles on an electric charge alone.

I personally don't have any kind of "green energy agenda." I'm not really sure what that's even supposed to mean. I just would like to see some independence in my country.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

You don't think peak oil is a crisis? If we don't have other options for energy when oil begins to become scarce, what do we do then? How will your trucking business work?

No, I don't think it's a crisis, because it's as big a hoax as global warming.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Part of the reasoning for more renewable energy is national independence. So that our leaders aren't stuck eating out of Saudi Arabia or Egypt's hand in fear. Currently many leaders in the middle east know that they have control over our nation, because they control the oil flow.

Besides, we are already seeing hybrids and electric cars (we've been seeing them for decades, but up until recently they have often been suppressed by people on oil company payrolls) that are selling quite well. We're seeing cars that will go over 80 miles on an electric charge alone.

I personally don't have any kind of "green energy agenda." I'm not really sure what that's even supposed to mean. I just would like to see some independence in my country.

More propaganda.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

If the government stays out of it, we won't. If there's a, "crisis", it will be because the government created it, just like the government is trying to pass global warming legislation.

Classic head in the sand.

There's only so much oil in this world, and only so many places in can be produced and transported around this world, with countries like China gaining more and more affluence, and the world in general, more and more oil is going to be consumed....

Demand will eventually go above production and thats where you get your energy crisis. Come now, this is grade 5 **** we're talking about. There will not be enough oil to last us forever, and when the **** hits the fan, what wil you do then? Everyone will cry to gubmit to save them, as they ALWAYS do.

Government has NOTHING to do with it. I don't care about no Global Warming Legislation.

I think you've bought into too much of the warmer propaganda. You can't start screaming, "energy crisis", after the government has shut down domestic oil and gas production.

Yes, because there's enough oil in the gulf to take you off foriegn oil tommorow... :coffeepap

What kind of an argument is this?
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

*wipes hands clean of this thread*

Well, if you're going to nitpick one sentence and just say "propaganda" I can tell this will lead to a well-thought out and logical debate. Good luck Jetboogie, but something tells me there's nothing anyone could ever say to convince him otherwise.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

*wipes hands clean of this thread*

Well, if you're going to nitpick one sentence and just say "propaganda" I can tell this will lead to a well-thought out and logical debate. Good luck Jetboogie, but something tells me there's nothing anyone could ever say to convince him otherwise.

I'm bored and he responds, I know there will be no victory here.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

There's only so much oil in this world

The earth up-n-stopped making oil one day? That makes as much sense that the water shortage scare back in the 90's, which caused the government to mandate smaller toilet tanks, that cause people to have to flush twice, thereby using 50% more water, every time someone took a dump.



and only so many places in can be produced and transported around this world, with countries like China gaining more and more affluence, and the world in general, more and more oil is going to be consumed....

That's why it doesn't make any sense to impose drilling bans.

Demand will eventually go above production and thats where you get your energy crisis. Come now, this is grade 5 **** we're talking about. There will not be enough oil to last us forever, and when the **** hits the fan, what wil you do then? Everyone will cry to gubmit to save them, as they ALWAYS do.

I agree with that--with reservations. The objective should be, to employ all sources of energy, simaltaneously: wind, solar, bio-fuels and yes, fossil fuels. The idea that killing the oil and gas industry and suddenly replacing it with green energy is assinine, at best; plumb ****ing stupid at the worst. When the government intentionally bans an industry, in favor of another industry, it has the stench of, "political agenda", all over it, not to mention; how much of their own money do these politicians have invested in these programs?



Government has NOTHING to do with it. I don't care about no Global Warming Legislation.

The government has NOTHING to do with drilling moratorium? I bet you would **** a brick, if the government came in and placed a moratorium on using food products to produce bio-fuels.



Yes, because there's enough oil in the gulf to take you off foriegn oil tommorow... :coffeepap

What kind of an argument is this?


Enough natural gas? Yes. Some of the largest natural gas reserves in the world are in the GOM. And you know what they say..."where there's gas, there's oil".

But, hey, keep believing that we're going to run out of oil, next week. Go buy some imaginary stocks from Al Gore and see how that goes for you.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

*wipes hands clean of this thread*

Well, if you're going to nitpick one sentence and just say "propaganda" I can tell this will lead to a well-thought out and logical debate. Good luck Jetboogie, but something tells me there's nothing anyone could ever say to convince him otherwise.

Care to prove that the oil companies have supressed electric cars? Ever think about there that electricity is going to come from?
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Care to prove that the oil companies have supressed electric cars? Ever think about there that electricity is going to come from?

There is a great documentary out there called "Who Killed the Electric Car". If not, I think it would be fair to at least view something like that before you dismiss it. Here is a link to a streaming version of it:

Who Killed The Electric Car : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Classic head in the sand.

There's only so much oil in this world, and only so many places in can be produced and transported around this world, with countries like China gaining more and more affluence, and the world in general, more and more oil is going to be consumed....

Demand will eventually go above production and thats where you get your energy crisis. Come now, this is grade 5 **** we're talking about. There will not be enough oil to last us forever, and when the **** hits the fan, what wil you do then? Everyone will cry to gubmit to save them, as they ALWAYS do.

Government has NOTHING to do with it. I don't care about no Global Warming Legislation.



Yes, because there's enough oil in the gulf to take you off foriegn oil tommorow... :coffeepap

What kind of an argument is this?

I told you we'd need more coffee. :coffeepap
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So no need to ever try anything new. Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money and it doesn't always work.

Well considering Democrats are 0-845....in terms of spending money to make money......

Sometimes you gotta elect the most inexperienced president in history.....who couldnt run a lemonade stand much less a candy store.....

But hey its ok, lets cut taxes, have "smaller Government" whatever the **** that means, stop gays from getting married, drill in Alaska and the gulf of Mexico, keep importing our oil from the Middle East, shop at mall of America, eat 40 big macs a week and wonder why nothings been done when we keep voting the same dumbasses into power over, and over, and over again.

/facepalm

....hows that change you voted for working out?
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Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Must we wonder why our Government is 14 trillion dollars in debt? Look at all the sound investments made in the name of progress over the past few decades. Insanity is preforming the same actions over and over EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS with each attempt. The progressives have wasted 15.9 trillion on welfare over the past few decades with the net result being regulating more and more middle class citizens unto the rolls of welfare resulting in a WELFARE STATE as the poverty index has now grown past 15%, the highest in history since such stats began in the 60s. Its official, 1 in 7 Americans are now living in poverty. Now we have a budget in place that demands the expenditure of some 10.3 Trillion dollars more on WELFARE alone over the next decade?

Why not follow the plan from the 90s when Welfare was reformed with a Contract with America and the poverty index went down for the first time in decades? Imagine that, putting people to work reduces poverty. No, all those reforms have been removed by this Administration and we have lost more middle class citizens to Welfare....kind'a makes you wonder what the real plan is...no? Why demand to have MORE MONEY (10.3 Trillion) over the next decade if the plan is to support the middle class? Looks like less money would be planned on being spent on welfare in stead of adding more to the budget. Imagine the Jobs that could be created with 10.3 Trillion...even if they were all Infrastructure Jobs.

The same principle applies to the energy sector, they are throwing the baby out with the bath water and are attempting to blame the opposition for their failed plans. Liberalism has had a blank check over the past 2 years.....ARE WE BETTER OFF than we were 2 years ago? The ideology has been an abstract failure. Thus the grinding and gnashing of teeth....that's all we heard over the last decade, IF WE JUST HAD A CHANCE. Well?

Obama to Spend $10.3 Trillion on Welfare: Uncovering the Full Cost of Means-Tested Welfare or Aid to the Poor | The Heritage Foundation
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

The reason alternative energies have trouble getting off the ground is because they are trying to enter a market that has many barriers to entry (that's an economics term if you'd like to look it up). Energy markets require massive amounts of capital to enter into and it is also hard to raise demand and may be one of the hardest markets to enter. Unfortunately, we have the ability to get a ton of energy for cheap enough that we don't want to convert. However, as we all know, that will be changing in the near future.

So, we can do two things. We can try to adapt, beat the curve, and start changing our energy infrastructure over before it is required. Or, we can wait, and then try to do it all at once. Either way, it is going to be painful. However, I think what you have shown is that if we want to make a difference, we actually need to invest more. Otherwise, it would be better not to invest at all.

Economies of scale plays a large part in this issue since without having massive funding and the ability to mass produce, the product becomes too expensive and too scarce for the public to invest in.


Indeed, this was highlighted at the World Future Energy Summit 2011:

'In an address during the Opening Ceremony of WFES 2011, HE Ban Ki Moon, UN Secretary General, said, “Abu Dhabi is becoming justifiably renowned as a hub of progress. You have brought remarkable wealth from the desert sands, and used it to create a vibrant modern nation. And your Masdar Initiative speaks of something more - a vision to build on and go beyond the age of fossil fuels to a new sustainable future. The decisions we make today on energy will have far-reaching consequences.”

On the second day of the summit, Truman Semans, Principal, Green Order, USA; Former Executive Committee Member, US Climate Action Partnership, USA, addressed Business Forum delegates saying, “The new model we need for engagement between government, business, and civil society requires changing the way we behave. Engagement to achieve a clean energy revolution requires a Culture of Innovation that fosters Trust, a spirit of Collaboration, and strong Leadership. We are entering an age of radical transparency. I urge you as leaders in this sector to ask the uncomfortable questions.... Is it just about technology, or is it also about new models of engagement to tackle the challenges of forging a sustainable energy future?”

Speaking during the Finance & Investment Forum on the final day of WFES, Lord Nicholas Stern, Chair of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment, London School of Economics, UK, and author of the acclaimed 2006 Stern Review Report on the Economics of Climate Change, suggested the scale of the opportunity for renewable energy is high. He said, “In order that climate change targets can be achieved, we face the need for a new industrial revolution. That industrial revolution needs policy change as a driver to reach the scale of change required. With fundamentally strong policy, we can also increase the pace of that change.”
News Body | World Future Energy Summit 2011
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Truman Semans, Principal, Green Order, USA; Former Executive Committee Member, US Climate Action Partnership, USA

A warmer said, so hell, it must be true! :lamo.

I wonder what his yearly salary is, because of his warmer activism. 6 figures? More?
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

A warmer said, so hell, it must be true! :lamo.

I wonder what his yearly salary is, because of his warmer activism. 6 figures? More?

Here's an undeniable fact. The United States doesn't have enough domestic energy production to avoid having to import it which causes us to be involved in parts of the world with "questionable morals" like Saudi Arabia which as you pointed out again and again is a proud supporter of a pretty radical view of Islam. You'll find you're support for alternative energy, of any kind doesn't even have to be green, by remembering who some of the biggest benefactors of our current energy importation are. So consider it part of the fight against radical Islam
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

....hows that change you voted for working out?


So far, better than I expected of a moderate in just 3 years after having been left with 2 wars and one of the worst economies in history. He reversed our slide towards another depression, has our troops coming home from Iraq, got the first health care bill ever passed, saved GM and Chrysler, and 3 million jobs, and has proposed cutting the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Here's an undeniable fact. The United States doesn't have enough domestic energy production to avoid having to import it which causes us to be involved in parts of the world with "questionable morals" like Saudi Arabia which as you pointed out again and again is a proud supporter of a pretty radical view of Islam. You'll find you're support for alternative energy, of any kind doesn't even have to be green, by remembering who some of the biggest benefactors of our current energy importation are. So consider it part of the fight against radical Islam

We would, if everything was brought on line--wind, solar, bio-fuels, petro-fuels. But, oh no, that'll never happen, because the treehuggers have too big-a-hard on for the oil companies. The green movement is mostly about the environment, but there's a political factor involved, too.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So far, better than I expected of a moderate in just 3 years after having been left with 2 wars and one of the worst economies in history. He reversed our slide towards another depression, has our troops coming home from Iraq, got the first health care bill ever passed, saved GM and Chrysler, and 3 million jobs, and has proposed cutting the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower.

The sad part is, you believe everything in that post. :lamo
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So far, better than I expected of a moderate in just 3 years after having been left with 2 wars and one of the worst economies in history. He reversed our slide towards another depression, has our troops coming home from Iraq, got the first health care bill ever passed, saved GM and Chrysler, and 3 million jobs, and has proposed cutting the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower.

Great Depression II

US may extend stay in Iraq
US Ambassador to Iraq James Jeffrey said on Friday that more US military forces may be needed to counter what he called “threats to Iraq's stability, [and they] will remain in 2012."

Florida judge rules health care law unconstitutional

U.S. Unlikely To Recoup GM Bailout, Panel Says
The U.S. government is unlikely to recover its entire $50 billion investment in General Motors Co., in part because the Obama administration unloaded a big block of shares in the company's initial public offering at $33 a share rather than wait for a higher price, a federal panel said Wednesday.

The Treasury Department, which took majority ownership of GM in 2009 as part of the company's bankruptcy reorganization, sold $13.5 billion worth of GM shares in November, cutting its stake from 61% to about 33%. The U.S.'s stake is down to 26.5% on a fully-diluted basis.

The decision to sell such a large stake, rather than hold onto the shares until their value appreciated further, "greatly reduced" the likelihood that taxpayers would be repaid in full, said the Congressional Oversight Panel, a body of outside experts that monitors bailout programs.

As for the 3 million number... first it was 8 million jobs created... then saved or created... then it went down to 3 million created... then saved or created... then simply supported... then the administration backed of any type of number of jobs associated with the stimulus at all, as they realized they had no wawy to prove any of the numbers.

Obama Budget Proposal: Cuts To Target Working Poor, Middle Class & Students
Less than two months after signing tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans into law, President Barack Obama proposed a spending plan to Congress that cuts funding to programs that assist the working poor, help the needy heat their homes, and expand access to graduate-level education, undermining the kind of community-based organizations that helped Obama launch his political career in Chicago.
And THAT was from the very liberal HuffPo
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So no need to ever try anything new. Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money and it doesn't always work.

But hey its ok, lets cut taxes, have "smaller Government" whatever the **** that means, stop gays from getting married, drill in Alaska and the gulf of Mexico, keep importing our oil from the Middle East, shop at mall of America, eat 40 big macs a week and wonder why nothings been done when we keep voting the same dumbasses into power over, and over, and over again.

/facepalm

wow, "Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money and it doesn't always work"
Why should the Government make the decision on where they spend our money? When the Government make's a bad decision it affect's everyone. This method of guessing and checking in order to make everyone happy inhibits new growth.

"Smaller" Government mean's that we the people do the guess and checking individualy, this way we have a choice in investing into something that would help us directly and if an individual spends money they shouldn't have... they get punished for it for not being successful.

"stop gays from getting married", completely irrelavant your just grouping people

The dependance on oil is NOT a good thing in the Free Market. So the free market will naturally lean towards renewable/cheaper energy. The only thing that is preventing this is the oil companies having a monopoly on the influence with this market. THAT is what should be changed, NOT trying to artificially pump our money into something that we cannot afford to do.
 
Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Putting this issue into perspective, I wonder how much federal dollars were initially invested into oil and coal companies before they became the main energy resources for America?

How about Bell Telephone company before they became the nation's #1 telecommunications company (prior to being forced to split-off into smaller regional telephone companies due to anti-trust suits)?

Point: Every energy start-up in this country has needed an infusion of federal dollars to get it going. While I do worry about the amount of money likely to be poured into such energy ventures, I do believe that unless we really get serious about changing our views on energy consumption and use, we will eventually be foreced to make drastic changes in our national energy policy. The time to start re-thinking energy alternatives, conservation and consumption is NOW!

Sidenote: Former President Jimmy Carter tried to warn us about our continueous dependency on foriegn oil. Other Presidents since have talked big talk about America's need to become energy independent, but none have put forth any meaningful policy that moves this country in that direction. To that, I give President Obama credit where it's due. He is at least trying to make an effort to wien this nation off big oil and coal and in effect saying to the American people - those who will listen anyway, "What if we stopped being the largest consumers of oil and coal and start EXPORTING these natural resources to other countries who need it...becoming the West's version of OPEC"? Frankly, I like the idea. Unfortunately, people who lack vision and would rather stay put, stand firm, stick with the status quo are those who are most resistent toward making such changes. IMO, that's sad. For all the talk of America being such a powerful nation, our national politics on energy consumption and use is so dumb! I mean, you don't see OPEC scrambling at the pumps everytime a national conflict in the Middle-East threatens to raise fuel prices? And yet here we are again just a mere TWO YEARS LATER with ANOTHER MIDDLE-EASTERN CONFLICT only this time it's not just one Arab country up in arms, it's MASSIVE! Every country in the Arab world it seems is thirsty for regime change as orchestrated by their own people. But as they seek democracy of their own choosing, our fuel prices are slowing creaping up, Up, UP! And we're bitching about a small multi-million dollar investment to a California-based solar panel company in its attempt to break into a competing market with China - the nation we seem to be the most concerned about these days.

WAKE UP, AMERICA! For if we don't, China will own us, and OPEC will continue to control us if we don't change our energy policies NOW!
 
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Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

So far, better than I expected of a moderate in just 3 years after having been left with 2 wars and one of the worst economies in history. He reversed our slide towards another depression, has our troops coming home from Iraq, got the first health care bill ever passed, saved GM and Chrysler, and 3 million jobs, and has proposed cutting the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower.

Hold on...my sides are still hurting....A "moderate".....lol.......man that was good.

The Most Liberal Senators of 2007
1. Barack Obama, D-Ill.
2. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I
3. Joseph Biden, D-Del.
4. Bernie Sanders, S-Vt.
5 Robert Menendez, D-N.J

....but when you claimed The Most Expensive and Inexperienced President in History--Barack HusSame Obama..... was going to cut spending.....

......that took the cake.
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Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

Putting this issue into perspective, I wonder how much federal dollars were initially invested into oil and coal companies before they became the main energy resources for America?

How about Bell Telephone company before they became the nation's #1 telecommunications company (prior to being forced to split-off into smaller regional telephone companies due to anti-trust suits)?

Point: Every energy start-up in this country has needed an infusion of federal dollars to get it going. While I do worry about the amount of money likely to be poured into such energy ventures, I do believe that unless we really get serious about changing our views on energy consumption and use, we will eventually be foreced to make drastic changes in our national energy policy. The time to start re-thinking energy alternatives, conservation and consumption is NOW!

Sidenote: Former President Jimmy Carter tried to warn us about our continueous dependency on foriegn oil. Other Presidents since have talked big talk about America's need to become energy independent, but none have put forth any meaningful policy that moves this country in that direction. To that, I give President Obama credit where it's due. He is at least trying to make an effort to wien this nation off big oil and coal and in effect saying to the American people - those who will listen anyway, "What if we stopped being the largest consumers of oil and coal and start EXPORTING these natural resources to other countries who need it...becoming the West's version of OPEC"? Frankly, I like the idea. Unfortunately, people who lack vision and would rather stay put, stand firm, stick with the status quo are those who are most resistent toward making such changes. IMO, that's sad. For all the talk of America being such a powerful nation, our national politics on energy consumption and use is so dumb! I mean, you don't see OPEC scrambling at the pumps everytime a national conflict in the Middle-East threatens to raise fuel prices? And yet here we are again just a mere TWO YEARS LATER with ANOTHER MIDDLE-EASTERN CONFLICT only this time it's not just one Arab country up in arms, it's MASSIVE! Every country in the Arab world it seems is thirsty for regime change as orchestrated by their own people. But as they seek democracy of their own choosing, our fuel prices are slowing creaping up, Up, UP! And we're bitching about a small multi-million dollar investment to a California-based solar panel company in its attempt to break into a competing market with China - the nation we seem to be the most concerned about these days.

WAKE UP, AMERICA! For if we don't, China will own us, and OPEC will continue to control us if we don't change our energy policies NOW!


Excellent post!!! :sun
 
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