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Thread: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-energy

  1. #11
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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You have to be smart about it. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on, "alternative energy", and no one has been able to make it work, or at least work at the level that we need it to work.
    So? thats how it goes sometimes, even private companies waste money on R&D, it happens, but if you never even begin to develop these technologies you can never improve them and eventually make them sustainable.

    Or as I said we can keep importing oil from the Middle East and just ignore the whole thing until its a giant ****ing disaster... which is what we always do cause we're humans.

    Green Technology ain't perfect yet, but I'd rather have my government waste money on something that could be highly beneficial in the future, and could make the nation independant on foriegn energy sources, then spending billions on a cruise missile to fire at a camel...

    I dunno, that's just me dogg.

  2. #12
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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You have to be smart about it. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on, "alternative energy", and no one has been able to make it work, or at least work at the level that we need it to work.
    The reason alternative energies have trouble getting off the ground is because they are trying to enter a market that has many barriers to entry (that's an economics term if you'd like to look it up). Energy markets require massive amounts of capital to enter into and it is also hard to raise demand and may be one of the hardest markets to enter. Unfortunately, we have the ability to get a ton of energy for cheap enough that we don't want to convert. However, as we all know, that will be changing in the near future.

    So, we can do two things. We can try to adapt, beat the curve, and start changing our energy infrastructure over before it is required. Or, we can wait, and then try to do it all at once. Either way, it is going to be painful. However, I think what you have shown is that if we want to make a difference, we actually need to invest more. Otherwise, it would be better not to invest at all.

    Economies of scale plays a large part in this issue since without having massive funding and the ability to mass produce, the product becomes too expensive and too scarce for the public to invest in.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-22-11 at 04:23 PM.

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You link is a year old.
    I am just trying to find more information about the company since the stimulus money was given. What's your point? Did you even read what I wrote?

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So? thats how it goes sometimes, even private companies waste money on R&D, it happens, but if you never even begin to develop these technologies you can never improve them and eventually make them sustainable.

    Or as I said we can keep importing oil from the Middle East and just ignore the whole thing until its a giant ****ing disaster... which is what we always do cause we're humans.

    Green Technology ain't perfect yet, but I'd rather have my government waste money on something that could be highly beneficial in the future, and could make the nation independant on foriegn energy sources, then spending billions on a cruise missile to fire at a camel...

    I dunno, that's just me dogg.
    Not with my taxes...dawg!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    The reason alternative energies have trouble getting off the ground is because they are trying to enter a market that has many barriers to entry (that's an economics term if you'd like to look it up). Energy markets require massive amounts of capital to enter into and it is also hard to raise demand and may be one of the hardest markets to enter. Unfortunately, we have the ability to get a ton of energy for cheap enough that we don't want to convert. However, as we all know, that will be changing in the near future.

    So, we can do two things. We can try to adapt, beat the curve, and start changing our energy infrastructure over before it is required. Or, we can wait, and then try to do it all at once. Either way, it is going to be painful. However, I think what you have shown is that if we want to make a difference, we actually need to invest more. Otherwise, it would be better not to invest at all.

    Economies of scale plays a large part in this issue since without having massive funding and the ability to mass produce, the product becomes too expensive and too scarce for the public to invest in.
    No, the reason they're having trouble getting off the ground, is because they have a weak product (that's a marketing term if you'd like to look it up). If they had a strongeer product, then billions in private capital would come rolling in...just like oil in the early 20th Century.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I am just trying to find more information about the company since the stimulus money was given. What's your point? Did you even read what I wrote?
    The point is, the company was given a half billion, revenued a hundred million and now it's going belly up. It's not clock surgery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Here are some more "up-to-date" sources for you:

    Fremont's high-flying Solyndra hits a rough patch - San Jose Mercury News
    One reason for its woes is that low-cost Chinese manufacturers are building massive factories that have rapidly driven down the price of solar panels and shifted more than 50 percent of production to China. But Solyndra's technology may also be a problem -- several analysts question whether it will ever capture more than a narrow niche of the market.
    I found this to be interesting. I never knew it, but it appears that communist China may actually beat the U.S. to the punch on solar energy. This will be just one more thing that China out produces America on. Awesome.

    Solyndra canceled its plans for an IPO in June, citing "adverse market conditions." Then in July, Chris Gronet, the company's founder, was replaced as CEO by Brian Harrison. Gronet remains at the company and chairs the board of directors.
    Like I said, they would like to go public but the investors just aren't there. Going public would help take the need for government support off our shoulders, but it's not looking great for that.

    However, one must wonder why First Solar was invested in instead:
    Many low-cost Chinese manufacturers, which benefit from massive government support, are manufacturing at costs in the $1.10 to $1.20 a watt range. Thin-film leader First Solar, based in Tempe, Ariz., manufactures at 75 cents a watt and aims to be at 53 cents a watt by 2014. Solyndra says its current manufacturing costs are about $3 per watt..
    Perhaps they were trying to create competition, but clearly Solyndra needs much more capital before it can reach those kinds of production values.

    Again, it's not great news but it's not all bad news.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-22-11 at 04:42 PM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, the reason they're having trouble getting off the ground, is because they have a weak product (that's a marketing term if you'd like to look it up). If they had a strongeer product, then billions in private capital would come rolling in...just like oil in the early 20th Century.
    You think energy is a weak product?

    America will have to change its energy consumption at some point. Again, the question is how long do we wait? Do you have an answer?

    Here is another good article on Solyndra:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...54443520110218
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-22-11 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    You think energy is a weak product?
    Green energy is a weak product. If it weren't, private investors would be climbing all over each other to get a piece of the pie.

    America will have to change its energy consumption at some point. Again, the question is how long do we wait? Do you have an answer?
    When circumstances force us to make a change, not when the government thinks it's a good idea. Obviously, the latter is having a negative effect on the economy.

    Necessity is the mother of invention, not the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #20
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    Re: Confirmed: Obama administration sunk $535 million in Porkulus funds in green-ener

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Green energy is a weak product. If it weren't, private investors would be climbing all over each other to get a piece of the pie.



    When circumstances force us to make a change, not when the government thinks it's a good idea. Obviously, the latter is having a negative effect on the economy.

    Necessity is the mother of invention, not the government.
    The free market will change, but it will change only when it has to. So, yes, it will change when oil prices are so high that people are not willing to buy them. Then, there will be a market shift and people will be willing to buy other products. Unfortunately, the public will find that they can't buy these products because no infrastructure to produce them has been built. So there will be years of waiting as new plants, turbines, panels, etc are being produced - and the scarce availability of them will cause prices to skyrocket as well.

    So if you want to wait for the free market to shift, that's fine, and it appears you aren't alone. However, if you wait too long, I think you might find that China and other countries will have beat us to the punch and then we'll be at their mercy.

    *Edit:

    As you said, necessity is the mother of invention. Using foresight, we can see necessity in our future. We can either use this foresight as an opportunity to be ahead of the curve and innovate, or we can wait until the last possible second to adapt. The choice is ours, of course, but as long as we aren't kidding ourselves about the necessity that awaits us then I think we are on the same page.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-22-11 at 05:41 PM.

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