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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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Democrats controlled the House the entire Reagan term and that is where the spending bills start.

The Republican controlled the Senate from 1980-1987 and no spending bills introduced by the House can be passed with out approval by the Senate and the President.
 
Why do posters try to deflect from the main issue? Disneydude?

What does corporate welfare have to do with public sector unions? I'd say that's a strawman.

and its not even the same thing

corporate welfare depending on how its defined could mean tax breaks as a quid pro quo for say toyota agreeing to build a new plant in your city. and unions loved those bailouts of GM
 
A special interest group represents a special interest group. They do not represent the entire nation.

Who are talking about?

First of all, that is false. Look at my statistics again. Massive corporations gave dozens of millions of dollars to BOTH parties, not just the republicans. Second, 94 mil versus 190 mil is also irrelevant, IMHO. It's like comparing the death rates under Hitler and Stalin and claiming Hitler was more benevolent than Stalin because he killed less people. In the end, they're both psychopathic murderers and in the end, both political parties are prostituting themselves to corporate and union interests.

You consider a 49% difference marginal?

Usually, the six-figures come after overtime pay is factored into the equation. Teachers and administrators may be the exception. But firefighters, police, and garbage men are making around 75K a year before overtime and after overtime kicks in, they're well into the six-figure range. Source = 60 Minute

So you do not believe in paying people for overtime worked? Educators (which is the subject in Wisconsin) make on average $75,000 which includes their benefits. What do you think someone with 4 to 8 years of college should make?
 
why do you make stuff up? can you find one ONE (1) (Uno) post of mine where I support "willingly hand billions of corporate welfare"

and I suspect what you define corporate welfare will be rather stupid

Why else do corporations want to spend millions in our elections? To buy the politicians who will turn around and hand them billions in tax cuts, tax incentives etc.
I find it rather ironic...and actually downright sad that people like you find no problem with corporations buying our politicians, yet freak out at the idea of a public worker actually having a voice in their employment issues.
 
The Republican controlled the Senate from 1980-1987 and no spending bills introduced by the House can be passed with out approval by the Senate and the President.

Uh, yeah, so what? The overwhelming numbers in the House could have prevented spending bills from even getting to the Senate thus any debt Reagan created was supported by the Congress including the overwhelming Democrat House. How did Reagan create that debt by himself with such large Democrat numbers in the House?
 
Why do posters try to deflect from the main issue? Disneydude?

What does corporate welfare have to do with public sector unions? I'd say that's a strawman.

Its not a strawman at all. There is no doubt that the GOP war on public employees is a veiled and orchestrated attempt at taking the focus off their corporate interests and trying to blame the public employee as the source of our economic woes. This was the entire motivation behind "citizen's united" and we are beginning to see phase 2 of that effort.

What the GOP failed to understand is the will of the people of this great country. I think that they believed that Americans would buy into their idealogy. Fortunately 2/3's of the country are standing with the people of this country against the government attempts to subjugate their voice.
 
Uh, yeah, so what? The overwhelming numbers in the House could have prevented spending bills from even getting to the Senate thus any debt Reagan created was supported by the Congress including the overwhelming Democrat House. How did Reagan create that debt by himself with such large Democrat numbers in the House?

First you make endless excuses for GWB....now more excuses for Reagan. What ever happened to "The buck stops here"? You guys won't accept responsibility for anything that you've done.
 
Who are talking about?

corporations and unions = special interests.

You consider a 49% difference marginal?

You're only reflecting on one statistic that details a single year. I've given you a stat that illustrates two decades worth of lobbying information.

So you do not believe in paying people for overtime worked?

No, but I do believe their base pay must be seriously reduced.

Educators (which is the subject in Wisconsin) make on average $75,000 which includes their benefits. What do you think someone with 4 to 8 years of college should make?

It all depends on market forces. A degree doesn't automatically entitle you to the rights of a job. And the subject in WI is not exclusively about educators.
 
First you make endless excuses for GWB....now more excuses for Reagan. What ever happened to "The buck stops here"? You guys won't accept responsibility for anything that you've done.

What are you talking about, Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt with the help of Congress and Obama has added 3.5 trillion to the debt with the help of Congress.Difference is that Obama had a Democrat controlled Congress, both Houses and Reagan had the Senate. seems like the buck never gets to a Democrat but what does any of that have to do with the thread topic.

Noticed again your typical hatred for corporations which employ people and pay dividends to shareholders as well as give millions to charities. Public unions on the other hand never negotiate with the people that pay their salaries. any tax cut for business comes off the revenue and profits they make so how does that affect you. Public unions take taxpayer money and spend it on candidates that support union causes which is to keep their members dependent.
 
Noticed again your typical hatred for corporations which employ people and pay dividends to shareholders as well as give millions to charities. Public unions on the other hand never negotiate with the people that pay their salaries. any tax cut for business comes off the revenue and profits they make so how does that affect you. Public unions take taxpayer money and spend it on candidates that support union causes which is to keep their members dependent.

In fact, they negotiate with the very people they put in office. Sweet deal. Incestuous bull****.
 
What is popular is not always right and vice versa. You obviously vote for the bandwagon.

I vote for the lesser of two evils regardless of party.

No, but my assertion that you live in fantasyland is backed by your ridiculous claims that Reagan's spending has yet to be matched (both GWB and Obama far exceeded Reagan's spending habits) and Reagan ruined our chances of energy independence. The last comment was by far the most bogus of them all
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Again with a strawman, What I said was no president has increased the National debt more than all the presidents before him combined, except Ray-gun. And if Reagan had not scrapped Carter's energy programs we would be not be fighting wars for oil in the ME today.
 
Uh, yeah, so what? The overwhelming numbers in the House could have prevented spending bills from even getting to the Senate thus any debt Reagan created was supported by the Congress including the overwhelming Democrat House. How did Reagan create that debt by himself with such large Democrat numbers in the House?
With his signature.
 
I vote for the lesser of two evils regardless of party.

In other words, you vote for the corporatist status quo.

Again with a strawman, What I said was no president has increased the National debt more than all the presidents before him combined, except Ray-gun. And if Reagan had not scrapped Carter's energy programs we would be not be fighting wars for oil in the ME today.

Do you even know what a strawman fallacy is? I'm 99.9% sure you're wrong about Reagan's spending. And finally, you're a fool if you think that Carter's energy programs were somehow going to magically cure us of our oil dependence. Every president since Nixon has promised to get us off foreign oil and ever since Nixon our dependence on foreign oil has only increased.

You put way too much stock in the ability of one man to do great things.
 
Uh, yeah, so what? The overwhelming numbers in the House could have prevented spending bills from even getting to the Senate thus any debt Reagan created was supported by the Congress including the overwhelming Democrat House. How did Reagan create that debt by himself with such large Democrat numbers in the House?

Which spending bills did the Republican controlled Senate disapprove. Which spending bills did Reagan veto?
 
Which spending bills did the Republican controlled Senate disapprove. Which spending bills did Reagan veto?

It doesn't matter, does it? The debt is there for all to see, just like the Obama debt. Why the outrage over 1.7 trillion and none towards the 3.5 trillion Obama has added? Anyway what does that have to do with the thread topic. Reagan probably pissed you off because he fired the Air Traffic Controllers which was the right thing to do. I am still waiting for you to explain to us all why state public unions have more collective bargaining rights than Federal Public unions. What has Obama done to change the policy that prevents Federal Public union employees from certain collective bargaining rights?
 
corporations and unions = special interests.

The corporations have decided to throw their big money at the party that doesn't buck them. The unions represent the working class, us, we the people. They are the last line of defense against complete corporate control.



You're only reflecting on one statistic that details a single year. I've given you a stat that illustrates two decades worth of lobbying information.

And, I've shown you that the picture has changed from what it was during the last 20 years. We finally have a government willing to challenge corporate welfare and it is reflected in all the big corporate money going to the GOP rather than to those standing up to them.


It all depends on market forces. A degree doesn't automatically entitle you to the rights of a job. And the subject in WI is not exclusively about educators.

Do you have a strawman factory you are running there. Why do you keep changing the points I make?
 
The corporations have decided to throw their big money at the party that doesn't buck them. The unions represent the working class, us, we the people. They are the last line of defense against complete corporate control.

Oh wow! Major change. Instead of consistently supporting democrats for 20 years, now corporations are throwing more of their money in the opposite direction. I guess we'll see what the future holds.

And, I've shown you that the picture has changed from what it was during the last 20 years. We finally have a government willing to challenge corporate welfare and it is reflected in all the big corporate money going to the GOP rather than to those standing up to them.

Bull****. Why do you think prescription drug companies support Obama's HC bill? Or why is it that GE and Apple and Facebook and Google have shelled out billions to support the democrats? Is that what you call standing up to corporations?

Do you have a strawman factory you are running there. Why do you keep changing the points I make?

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A STRAWMAN FALLACY IS! I'm not changing your points; I'm directly responding to them.

It's like I'm debating a brick wall here.
 
In fact, they negotiate with the very people they put in office. Sweet deal. Incestuous bull****.

Yet...you think it is completely fine for corporations to buy our congressmen? Wow...
 
In other words, you vote for the corporatist status quo.

I go with the side the corporations hate the most. Guess who that is?


Do you even know what a strawman fallacy is?

Yes, and you frequently give me examples to remind me.


I'm 99.9% sure you're wrong about Reagan's spending.

Which spending bills did Ray-gun veto?


And finally, you're a fool if you think that Carter's energy programs were somehow going to magically cure us of our oil dependence. Every president since Nixon has promised to get us off foreign oil and ever since Nixon our dependence on foreign oil has only increased.

KInd of hard to rate their progress since Ray-gun scrapped them. However, they had begun to work during the 4 years before Ray-gun scrapped them. We would have had 3 decades to develop alternatives and three decades of concerted conservation efforts could have prevented our need to go to war in the ME and to help prepare us for what the military is now warning us about happening in this decade, wold peak oil.

You put way too much stock in the ability of one man to do great things.

I would submit that you put way too little stock in the importance of leadership.
 
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