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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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Yeah. Working people sticking up for one another instead of trying to tear each other down is "thuggery".

You side with the Koch Brothers who inherited their wealth and pretend to be $35 Billion victims, but hate teachers, cops, and fire fighters and think they're the "elites".
 
Yeah. Working people sticking up for one another instead of trying to tear each other down is "thuggery".

You side with the Koch Brothers who inherited their wealth and pretend to be $35 Billion victims, but hate teachers, cops, and fire fighters and think they're the "elites".

I hate people justifying the rape of taxpayers for unions so they can charge more union dues and give more money to the democrats. This is political not about the workers.
 
I hate people justifying the rape of taxpayers for unions so they can charge more union dues and give more money to the democrats. This is political not about the workers.

So you admit that it's nothing but politics for you and NOT about working people.

You want public workers to suffer the same loss of wages and benefits as private sector employees do.

It's not about the state budget at all (because again, the union has already conceded the budget stuff); it's about turning the last sector of workers who maintain the right to organize into serfs like the rest of us.

Never mind that a bunch of Tea Party heroes drool over their government checks to do nothing (i.e. farm subsidies). Don't do anything about them. Attack workers instead.
 
its a death tax and millions call it that

and you lie about what i said

The fact that right wingers have attempted to call something what it not is simply speaks to political tactics and NOT economic reality.

It does not matter what anyone calls anything else when they are doing so for a blatant political purpose as part of a ideological campaign.

All you have to do is show us in the law where there is a death tax. I gave YOU the law in your own state that you complained was a death tax. i gave the you he law and the language and it was an ESTATE TAX.

So try again, and this time use the facts.
 
so can you deny this after I posted citations to a study showing how many teachers are at the bottom of the classes

I realize it must hurt but smart people generally dont become public school teachers


Why aren't our teachers the best and the brightest? - From Our Inbox - MiamiHerald.com



So why do top U.S. college students have so little interest in teaching careers compared with their counterparts in the world's best-performing nations

Read more: Why aren't our teachers the best and the brightest? - From Our Inbox - MiamiHerald.com

Aha! Turtle is attempting to move the goal posts. These articles simply present a case for changing the methods of teacher recruitment and paying teachers more. There is nothing in there at all which supplies hard data to support your boast made in post #1114 in this very thread. for those who want to refer to it, it is on page 112. Here it is

teaching attracts the lower and lowest ranked HS students entering college.


You have not presented any data which speaks to this claim. Your article talks about other tangential issues such as recruitment, pay and who makes up the top - BUT DOES NOT say anything about your boast in post #1114 found on page 112.

teaching attracts the lower and lowest ranked HS students entering college.

Let us see you produce that data and please stop moving the goal posts. It appears that what you are attempting to do is change the playing field and change your claim since you cannot find data which supports your original claim. If you claim that the world is flat, producing an observable flat section of land does not prove the claim.

I would think asa trained courtroom lawyer that you would have extensive practice about presenting evidence. I know that when I debated for two years in college that our coach spent a great deal of time on evidence and we would have lost every debate and probably been kicked off the team if we attempted to present what you have presented.

So Again, Turtle, I ask you to redirect your efforts to proving with hard data the claim that you made on post #1114 found on page 112

teaching attracts the lower and lowest ranked HS students entering college.

I read your three page article and it was very interesting. But it did nothing to provide any data to support your boast. In fact, you seem so desperate to come up with anything on the subject you failedto notice this in your own article

In the United States, by contrast, only 23 percent of new teachers scored among the top third of SAT and ACT test-takers back in high school.

So nearly one-quarter of the test takers who are called "new teachers" score in the top one-third. That all by itself shows your claim is ridiculous.

Now all you need to do is show us that the other three-quarters all scored at the bottom and you can change you boast and again move the goal posts to try to claim some sort of victory.

btw - I would love to see the actual data analyzing this and see the methodology employed. Eagerly awaiting it.
 
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It is the taxpayers that pay and the Governor is representing the taxpayers in a proper way
Did the governor give himself a pay cut? What about the state legislature? Do politicians deserve to earn as much or more than a teacher? What about their healthcare plan? Their pension plan? Their private offices? Their special license plates? Did the frugal governor address any of these taxpayer items?

A crock of hypocrite crap.
 
Here it is for you Turtle - your own state of Ohio - from the official Ohio.gov website

Table of Contents

The Ohio estate tax was enacted in 1968 to replace a state inheritance tax, but its roots can be traced back to 1893, when an inheritance tax was enacted during the McKinley administration.

Under current law, the estates of residents with a net taxable value of $338,333 or less are effectively exempt from payment of the tax. A 6 percent tax rate applies to any net taxable value above that mark, up to $500,000. A 7 percent rate applies to any net taxable value over $500,000.

For more information on the tax, see the options below.

Annual report (PDF) — The estate tax chapter from the Ohio Department of Taxation's annual report is here.
Forms — The estate tax return and instructions (ET 2) and all other estate tax forms are here.
Frequently asked questions — Answers to the most common questions about this tax are located here.
Information releases — These releases are technical advisories that offer detailed explanations of the laws, rules and rulings that govern the taxes administered by the Ohio Department of Taxation.
Interest Rates — The interest rate that applies to overdue taxes changes each year. This page has the latest information.

There is no death tax in Ohio.
 
It is true, in 2007 Buffett publicly challenged the members of the fortune 500 club to show him they paid a higher tax rate than their receptionist he would give them a million dollars. To this date he has had no takers.

so what

his patent attempts to suck up the dem politicians is obvious
when you have as much money as he does gaining power and the love of the masses is all that is left

what is true is that non one who is a billionaire is making that purely on salary so they have to have most of their income in lower taxed forms of income (though dividends are taxed twice so if you count the corporate profit cut that would be a more accurate reflection of tax rates). and since anyone making over 200K a year is paying the same top marginal rate on salaries as these guys its obvious what the overall rate is going to be

but the fact remains-almost every person bringing in that sort of income-even if its all capital gains-pays more income taxes than millions upon millions of americans combined
 
Yeah. Working people sticking up for one another instead of trying to tear each other down is "thuggery".

You side with the Koch Brothers who inherited their wealth and pretend to be $35 Billion victims, but hate teachers, cops, and fire fighters and think they're the "elites".

The passion you have for labor unions is quite telling and ignores that this isn't about all labor unions but about public labor unions which you have yet to defend. FDR, probably the most pro union President in U.S. history, understood the problems with public unions and thus didn't support collective bargaining for those unions yet you and other liberals ignore that reality. This is about what is best for ALL the taxpayers of Wisconsin and thus for them to decide. Busing people in from around the country to show massive crowds is what unions do. Who is representing the will of the people in Wisconsin?
 
Wisconsin and the GOP's War on the Middle Class

WisProtest.jpg


"It is an act of war. America's class war has arrived on our doorstep with the subtlety of a daisy cutter. Now, the big questions are the outcome, and whether Democrats will show America whose side they are on.

What Conservatives Really Want

Conservatives are trying to eliminate the last "good jobs" left in America. They're not just targeting public employees and public employee unions, but the very concepts of a common good and a public interest. George Lakoff explained that "Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life," in which " ... it would be wrong for the government to provide health care, education, public broadcasting, public parks and so on."

When abstract budget cuts translate into fewer teachers, police officers, health workers, firefighters, etc. in our communities, we begin to realize that such cuts hurt rather than heal. We provide these things because we believe meeting certain needs, whether or not it's profitable is a common good.

We are faced with a conservative movement that rejects the common good, and sees it as the problem.

Ideology vs. Reality: Something Has To Give

Wisconsin and other states are where the irresistible force of ideology meets the immovable object of reality. Like the Johnny Mercer lyric that says, "something's gotta give." As America looked on at the amazing protests in Egypt, we heard how Egypt's economic inequality catalyzed a movement. We learned that economic inequality is worse here than in Egypt. It's no coincidence protesters in Cairo and Madison have exchanged statements of solidarity.


What does it mean when Americans in Madison, Wis., see themselves in the same boat at protesters in Egypt? It means that our domestic economic policies have mirrored our economically driven foreign policy, with consequences as devastating to working and middle-class Americans. Mother Jones magazine spelled it out in just eight charts.

A Lost Middle Class, Unbridled Corporate Power

This attack on the things government does that support the middle class, comes when the middle class is already weakened by decades of conservative policies. If it succeeds, We're facing a "lost decade" in which middle and working-class Americans suffer the loss of these supports, facing stagnation and downward mobility, and worse. As Kevin Drum notes, destroying unions removes the only remaining counterbalance to corporate power.

Wisconsin illustrates that conservative economic and fiscal policies create crises that Republicans then exploit to accomplish political ends -- weakening their opponents and increasing power for themselves and their cronies. In a short time, Walker has destroyed (and threatened to destroy more) jobs than his policies are likely to create. The $117 billion in tax breaks that Walker and the Republican legislature pushed through for GOP cronies basically created the very crisis he claims to address.

That Walker refuses any compromise at all, even though the unions agreed to accept wage and benefit reductions as long as they keep the right to collective bargaining, shows that the budget isn't the point. Power is."
Terrance Heath: Wisconsin and the GOP's War on the Middle Class[/QUOTE]

an opinion from some far left hate the GOP moonbat site? why would the conservatives want to destroy good jobs-its the dem leadership that has an interest in keeping people in poverty or dependent on the government. what conservatives tire of are our tax dollars funding entities that use our tax dollars to support people like obama and pelosi and other such parasitic socialists
 
The fact that right wingers have attempted to call something what it not is simply speaks to political tactics and NOT economic reality.

It does not matter what anyone calls anything else when they are doing so for a blatant political purpose as part of a ideological campaign.

All you have to do is show us in the law where there is a death tax. I gave YOU the law in your own state that you complained was a death tax. i gave the you he law and the language and it was an ESTATE TAX.

So try again, and this time use the facts.

you really go into hysterics when the death tax is called a death tax. Of course those who support this abominatio want to call it as benign a term as possible. the left has always try to couch their propaganda that way such as claiming the "rich" need to "pay their fair share" which is as blatant a lie as possible but if you and your masters said "we want to soak the rich so the masses keep voting for us" you'd have a harder time selling your class envy vote gathering schemes.


since you most likely have never been affected by the federal death tax I don't think you have much standing to dictate to those of us who will be what to call it
 
So you admit that it's nothing but politics for you and NOT about working people.

You want public workers to suffer the same loss of wages and benefits as private sector employees do.
It's not about the state budget at all (because again, the union has already conceded the budget stuff); it's about turning the last sector of workers who maintain the right to organize into serfs like the rest of us.

Never mind that a bunch of Tea Party heroes drool over their government checks to do nothing (i.e. farm subsidies). Don't do anything about them. Attack workers instead.

No. The Governor of Wisconsin is trying to cut back collective bargaining rights of public employees to STILL more rights than Federal employees have.

@ Haymarket -- though I fail to see what in the world Death Tax/Estate Tax has to do with this thread, everybody but you knows that the words Death Tax are synonymous with the words Estate Tax and are used most commonly by those who oppose taxing money just because someone dies. What a waste of time to argue that point.
 
So you admit that it's nothing but politics for you and NOT about working people.

You want public workers to suffer the same loss of wages and benefits as private sector employees do.

It's not about the state budget at all (because again, the union has already conceded the budget stuff); it's about turning the last sector of workers who maintain the right to organize into serfs like the rest of us.

Never mind that a bunch of Tea Party heroes drool over their government checks to do nothing (i.e. farm subsidies). Don't do anything about them. Attack workers instead.
some here won't be happy until the average worker is working 16 hour days for pennies an hour...
 
some here won't be happy until the average worker is working 16 hour days for pennies an hour...

mostly dem politicians

if the vast majority of voters were doing ok there would be no 'need' for the welfare socialist nonsense rich dems get richer from
 
some here won't be happy until the average worker is working 16 hour days for pennies an hour...

Some here won't be happy until taxpayers are no longer subsidizing Democrats' political campaigns through their "give-away-the-store" mentality at the bargaining table.

Those who think their union is the only thing standing between them and 16-hour-days-for-pennies are probably right. For the rest of us working stiffs, we know we don't have to depend on a union's largess to get paid what we're worth. And, by "the rest of us working stiffs," read 88.1% of all workers in the United States.
 
some here won't be happy until the average worker is working 16 hour days for pennies an hour...
The huge corporations and conglomerates - whom conservatives cater to - will be tickled green.
 
The huge corporations and conglomerates - whom conservatives cater to - will be tickled green.

most conservatives don't want people to be in poverty because that condition is what the rich dems use to justify the income redistribution they tap into to gain wealth and power. Most of us on the right realize that the handouts dem masters use to buy votes are deleterious to America and most americans in the long run
 
The huge corporations and conglomerates - whom conservatives cater to - will be tickled green.

Yeah, those corporations and conglomerates can't wait for the day when we'll have no money to pay for their goods and services. Think, Tashah.
 
The huge corporations and conglomerates - whom conservatives cater to - will be tickled green.

Name for us a large corporation that pays its full time workers minimum wage? What you don't seem to understand is minimum wage also serves as a maximum wage that some companies have to pay their workers when the market would demand more. In my 35 years in the business world, not once did I ever pay minimum wage to any of the 1200 full time employees I hired. I competed against Wal-Mart and McDonalds and know their pay structure quite well. Keep buying the leftwing rhetoric whose sole goal is to keep you and others dependent.
 
some here won't be happy until the average worker is working 16 hour days for pennies an hour...

Liberals always buy the feel good rhetoric of spending in the name of compassion yet never hold the elite accountable for the failure in generating compassionate results but instead creating greater dependence. Conservatives are the only ones that really don't care how much money you make. Contrast to liberal leadership.
 
Some here won't be happy until taxpayers are no longer subsidizing Democrats' political campaigns through their "give-away-the-store" mentality at the bargaining table.

Those who think their union is the only thing standing between them and 16-hour-days-for-pennies are probably right. For the rest of us working stiffs, we know we don't have to depend on a union's largess to get paid what we're worth. And, by "the rest of us working stiffs," read 88.1% of all workers in the United States.
i want the rest of you 'working stiffs', when you have a moment of clarity, to thank the unions for all that you have...8hr standard workday, minimum time and a half for overtime, weekends off, paid vacations, holidays such as christmas, thanksgiving.....not to mention improved health and safety rules, the 'unions' keeping the pressure on osha, which does nothing more than enforce(if that, more often a small fine) bare minimum standards, NOT THE STANDARDS THAT ARE THE MOST SAFE, the bare minimum, and they wouldnt do that without the unions holding the flame to their feet...some of you are so blind, so set in your thinking, as to belive that nothing would change if unions were to go out of existence...every day, big business is in washington, the local statehouses, to lobby to reduce worker protections, to lobby for lower safety standards, to lobby for laws to limit how and when overtime should be paid... yeah, life would suck without unions.
 
i want the rest of you 'working stiffs', when you have a moment of clarity, to thank the unions for all that you have...8hr standard workday, minimum time and a half for overtime, weekends off, paid vacations, holidays such as christmas, thanksgiving.....not to mention improved health and safety rules, the 'unions' keeping the pressure on osha, which does nothing more than enforce(if that, more often a small fine) bare minimum standards, NOT THE STANDARDS THAT ARE THE MOST SAFE, the bare minimum, and they wouldnt do that without the unions holding the flame to their feet...some of you are so blind, so set in your thinking, as to belive that nothing would change if unions were to go out of existence...every day, big business is in washington, the local statehouses, to lobby to reduce worker protections, to lobby for lower safety standards, to lobby for laws to limit how and when overtime should be paid... yeah, life would suck without unions.

It really sucks when individuals delegate personal responsibility issues to someone else, i.e. the unions especially today. Liberals always overreact with emotional rhetoric and the reality that liberals only want dependence for without it, liberalism wouldn't be needed. We have laws on the books today that eliminate the need for unions but that doesn't matter to those dependent on the unions who cannot compete in society. Then there is the public vs. private sector unions. Who do the public unions bargain with?

Randal did you ever determine where the money comes from that the public union workers get to pay their union dues?
 
It really sucks when individuals delegate personal responsibility issues to someone else, i.e. the unions especially today. Liberals always overreact with emotional rhetoric and the reality that liberals only want dependence for without it, liberalism wouldn't be needed. We have laws on the books today that eliminate the need for unions but that doesn't matter to those dependent on the unions who cannot compete in society. Then there is the public vs. private sector unions. Who do the public unions bargain with?

Randal did you ever determine where the money comes from that the public union workers get to pay their union dues?
laws can be changed, and are changed all the time, that is why big business has people in washington to lobby for them, to change laws, to make them more favorable to business...laws on the books don't mean squat if they are not enforced...and conservative...still collecting that social security check? you know, that 'entitlement' benefit that you lobby so hard against?
 
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