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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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Interesting. And what are the pensions for elected officials in Illinois? Just curious.

My point is I think it's shameful for people like Walker and Daniels claim their employees have to sacrifice, while they do not.

I also think it's sad that, instead of people demanding more from their employers (what state government workers receive USED to be what private sectors employees got), they want to make sure others have as crappy benefits as they do.

"We have fewer rights! You should to!"

And this isn't about the budget at all. It's been said over and over again, that the contribution changes and the wage freezes would be acceptable; the only thing they ask is that the right to collective bargaining not be stripped from them.

Walker could solve this quickly. But he won't. Why? Because it's not about budgets at all; it's solely about stripping workers' rights (and selling public utilities off to his rich friends at prices he deems fit - because he has to pay back his masters).

This is an assault on all working people.

The assault on the working class is the unions thinking the taxpayers owe them more money
 
I don't think public unions should have the right to collective bargaining, a right limited at the Federal level. FDR got it right when he didn't support collective bargaining for public unions. I support Walker 100% but since I am not in Wisconsin and neither are you it really doesn't matter what we think.

I care about my friends and family who live there - two of whom are teachers; one of whom is a college professor at Wiscy.

You realize there are only 5 states where teachers don't have collective bargaining rights: the higest one on ACT/SAT scores is Virginia at 44th. The rest rank 47th, 48th, 49th, and 50th. Pay your teachers **** and you get poorly educated children.

SAT and ACT Average Scores by States
 
The assault on the working class is the unions thinking the taxpayers owe them more money

So teachers, cops, and firefighters should be slaves?

Besides, you just said you don't pay taxes, so why do you care?
 
WTF "crisis" are you talking about? If Walker had not gave away tax breaks to his buddies then there would have been "no crisis." As Walker admitted when he got punked, it wasn't about the budget, it was about busting unions with Wisconsin being the first domino. He didn't mention that in his campaign, but he sure as hell doesn't mind agreeing with David Koch, his biggest contributor, about it.

So the former democrat governor has no stake in this. Funny how that works all Obama does is blame Bush but here the former democrat governor is not at all responsible here for the debt in the state budget..
JC_thinking.gif
 
So teachers, cops, and firefighters should be slaves?

Besides, you just said you don't pay taxes, so why do you care?

I do pay taxes that pay teachers. I pay my property taxes. in Florida we do not have a state income tax. federal money only pays part of the money needed for education.

Slaves? Slaves only wish they could get those wages and benefits. That is hardly slaves
 
Libertarians also wish to end corporate welfare and our military imperialism around the globe. You okay with that too?

yeah for the most part
 
You really don't have a clue how to create jobs. You look at the tax cuts to lure companies and ignore the people those companies hire that pay taxes. you don't have a lot of credibility on any issue as you run when confronted. Just like tax cuts to you cause deficits and not spending. You see tax cuts doing nothing for the economy and history proves you wrong. Walker is trying to lure people back to the states, think raising taxes to fund public unions will do that?

So your plan is cut the working man back to third world wages so we can compete??? If you think "luring" companies to your area over another is important than raise taxes on everyone to pay for it, don't take it away from working people trying to make a living. These unfunded expenditures have much more to do with our debt than does the piddling amount we pay our teachers, firefighters and police.

Do you really believe we can become debt free on the backs of the working class?
 
It is not the education but what others make for the same job. You want to distort to justify the overpayment of government employees


What overpayment? How much do you think teachers, firefighters and police should make? Let's see your numbers.
 
You really hate it when I tell you that you fail to comprehend what other posters write. You keep saying that is not the case despite it happening over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread.

Now it seems that you fail to even comprehend what you yourself write.

Again, here is your allegation



My position?!?!?!? What in the world are you talking about? Why do you have a link which says not one single word to support the claim you previously made? Do you even read your own links?

This is YOUR POSITION taken earlier that is under discussion. Got that Turtle? YOUR POSITION. But at least you get credit for attempting a Three Card Montie switch even though you failed at it.

Sadly, the material you posted above FAILS MISERABLY to support your allegation. Most likely because you are trying very hard to make everyone forget what it actually was and now want to trot out a strawman of your own creation to do battle with.

Please do your work this time. Find some objective and authoritative source which provides the data to support your claim. I understand you have precious little experience finding data that agrees with you so you have this second chance.

those who go into the teaching major are generally the bottom of the barrel academically.

I cannot think of anyone who planned on being a HS teacher who I went to Yale with. One guy-a Marshall scholar, dropped out of yale Law to teach at a yeshiva after suddenly becing far more observant a Jew than he was in college but he is the only one of about 500 people I knew well enough to know what they did after college. I would say 200 went to law school, 100 went to medical school, 100 went to graduate school 7 went to the military, 10 trained for various olympic games (mostly rowing) and most of the rest worked and then went to b school or law school
 
Getting back to the thread topic - Gallup Poll: Only Highest Earners Support Gutting Collective Bargaining


"Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI) does have at least one demographic on his side in the battle to eliminate collective bargaining rights for public unions -- the wealthy.

Earlier this week, Gallup released a poll showing that six in ten Americans said they oppose plans to roll back collective bargaining rights for public unions in their own states. As Greg Sargent noted today, only one income bracket within that poll -- those making more than $90,000 per year -- favors that idea.

In fact, the more money people make, the more likely they are to support eliminating collective bargaining, according to the poll.

Among those who make less than $24,000 per year, 19% support cutting union rights, while 74% are opposed. Americans earning between $24,000 and $59,999 oppose that plan by a 33% to 63% split, while those earning between $60,000 and $89,999 also opposed the plan, 41% to 53%.

Among the top earners, however, 50% said they would support a plan to cut collective bargaining rights to reduce the deficit, while 47% said they oppose such a plan.

There have only been a smattering of polls on the question so far, but surveys so far have largely shown Americans supporting unions over Walker."

Gallup Poll: Only Highest Earners Support Gutting Collective Bargaining | TPMDC

ie those paying most of the taxes?
 
It is not the education but what others make for the same job. You want to distort to justify the overpayment of government employees

The Education Divide - NYTimes.com

Public workers with college degrees make an average of $13,000 LESS than their private sector counterparts. Only in unskilled labor requiring no degree do they make (and then slightly) more than private sector workers.

Myth busted.
 
those who go into the teaching major are generally the bottom of the barrel academically.

I cannot think of anyone who planned on being a HS teacher who I went to Yale with. One guy-a Marshall scholar, dropped out of yale Law to teach at a yeshiva after suddenly becing far more observant a Jew than he was in college but he is the only one of about 500 people I knew well enough to know what they did after college. I would say 200 went to law school, 100 went to medical school, 100 went to graduate school 7 went to the military, 10 trained for various olympic games (mostly rowing) and most of the rest worked and then went to b school or law school

Here's an idea, genius, pay them more and you'd attract higher quality people.

Keep paying them **** and you're just going to end up with dumber children and a worse economy.

Oh, but you'd have more people to look down upon from your ivory tower, so I guess I see why you would like that so much.
 
What overpayment? How much do you think teachers, firefighters and police should make? Let's see your numbers.

I think in this economy and with the government with no money they are doing better than most and should be content they are well off.

The next step is layoffs is that what you want. thenthey will have to live on unemployment which is much less.


Providence Rhode Island 1,926 Pink Slip Teachers
 
The Education Divide - NYTimes.com

Public workers with college degrees make an average of $13,000 LESS than their private sector counterparts. Only in unskilled labor requiring no degree do they make (and then slightly) more than private sector workers.

Myth busted.

Where do you get $13,000. By professors I see $2,000 which is almost nothing
 
yeah for the most part

I am delighted we both agree with ending corporate welfare and US military imperialism around the globe! :sun
 
Here's an idea, genius, pay them more and you'd attract higher quality people.

Keep paying them **** and you're just going to end up with dumber children and a worse economy.

Oh, but you'd have more people to look down upon from your ivory tower, so I guess I see why you would like that so much.



I dont really care who looks down on me-fortunately I am very good at what I do and I am wealthy enough that I am in the Kiss my as club.

and we cannot afford it-reality bites

but thanks for agreeing with me=about the quality of people attracted
 
I am delighted we both agree with ending corporate welfare and US military imperialism around the globe! :sun

yes I want the government to actually live within the limits of the constitution and the tenth amendment.

ponder what that means for all the socialist nonsense you crave
 
We all pay taxes. Do you mean those that make more than those they are complaining about?

I said what I meant and meant what I said. the rich most of the actually tax dollars in this country. The top 5% pay more federal income taxes than the bottom 95% and more death confiscation taxes (indeed the top 1 percent pay more DC taxes than the bottom 99%)

as to the taxes that fund teachers in the public sector-that depends on how the states fund them
 
I think in this economy and with the government with no money they are doing better than most and should be content they are well off.

The next step is layoffs is that what you want. thenthey will have to live on unemployment which is much less.


Providence Rhode Island 1,926 Pink Slip Teachers

This isn't about the increase in personal contributions to retirement and healthcare.

The Unions already agreed to that and have said so multiple times.

This is NOTHING but Union busting. Period. It's stripping workers' rights away from them and nothing more.

How can you not get that? Walker won't listen to anyone except his cheerleaders. Even some of his Republicans have said, "Let's take out this part of the bill and get back to work." And he refuses.

It's because - like a lot of Republicans - he doesn't believe that work should be paid for.

He also believe that he should have the right to sell off government property to anyone for any price he sees fit.

It's corruption. It's taking money away from working people so the rich can get richer and nothing more.

He strips rights from middle class workers - teachers, policemen & women, fire fighters, EMTs - and will sell public utilities to rich, private, investors (that taxpayers built and paid for) for less than they're worth.

That's what this bill is about. It's not about teachers not accepting pay freezes or paying more for healthcare. If it were, this wouldn't have become news; because there would've been no controversy - because the Unions already agreed to it.

You've posted how much you make. You believe one day, apparently, that you'll be one of the uberwealthy who will benefit from these policies. Hate to tell you, but it ain't gonna happen. Odds are very against you rising above your parents' station in this country.

You are calling these people "fat cats" when they make about $48,000 a year. Nationwide, public employees with college degrees make about $51,000. Walker, himself, makes more than twice that - but I don't see him offering up his salary.

He just wants to take it away from working people.
 
No we all do not pay taxes. I started a thread proving it

he means stuff like sin taxes on smokes, sales taxes, taxes when you sit down at arby's to eat rather than taking it out, gasoline taxes and the forced contributions to Medicare and SS
 
I said what I meant and meant what I said. the rich most of the actually tax dollars in this country. The top 5% pay more federal income taxes than the bottom 95% and more death confiscation taxes (indeed the top 1 percent pay more DC taxes than the bottom 99%)

as to the taxes that fund teachers in the public sector-that depends on how the states fund them

**** the "death tax". It's the Paris Hilton Life Support Benefit (if you can give it a cutesy name, I can too).

And OF COURSE the top 1% pay the most in the interitance tax. Because they're the only ones affected by it because they're the only ones who have enough to have the tax levied against them.

DUH!
 
Interesting. And what are the pensions for elected officials in Illinois? Just curious.

My point is I think it's shameful for people like Walker and Daniels claim their employees have to sacrifice, while they do not.

I also think it's sad that, instead of people demanding more from their employers (what state government workers receive USED to be what private sectors employees got), they want to make sure others have as crappy benefits as they do.

"We have fewer rights! You should to!"

And this isn't about the budget at all. It's been said over and over again, that the contribution changes and the wage freezes would be acceptable; the only thing they ask is that the right to collective bargaining not be stripped from them.

Walker could solve this quickly. But he won't. Why? Because it's not about budgets at all; it's solely about stripping workers' rights (and selling public utilities off to his rich friends at prices he deems fit - because he has to pay back his masters).

This is an assault on all working people.

Perhaps you could say it's an assault on 11.9% of all working people!!!! Again, cry me a river.

Never belonged to a union in my life. I've done very well in my life. Ya' know why? Because I was rewarded on my merits. I negotiated my own salary, my own benefits. And ya' know what else? It didn't cost the taxpayers a freakin' dime.
 
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