Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

Conservative said:

There isn't? You are a waste of time.

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And you keep spending yours here arguing with people who you will never convert.

The fact is that in your post, you completely ignored my very patient response with you in which I pointed out that all people pay taxes and pay them at about the same percentage of their income.

You are obsessed with the income tax because you are trying to make a politically extremist and ideologically right wing point about progressive taxation. You and folks like Turtle have made that crystal clear in hundreds of your posts where you repeat the same thing over and over and over and over in thread after thread after thread after thread no matter what the real topic is.

And then you have the unmitigated gall to pretend that it is you who are not being treated fairly here. Amazing.

haymarket said:

And you keep spending yours here arguing with people who you will never convert.

The fact is that in your post, you completely ignored my very patient response with you in which I pointed out that all people pay taxes and pay them at about the same percentage of their income.

You are obsessed with the income tax because you are trying to make a politically extremist and ideologically right wing point about progressive taxation. You and folks like Turtle have made that crystal clear in hundreds of your posts where you repeat the same thing over and over and over and over in thread after thread after thread after thread no matter what the real topic is.

And then you have the unmitigated gall to pretend that it is you who are not being treated fairly here. Amazing.

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1) your claim about taxes is dubious at best and fails to address the fact that many don't pay what for what they use.

2) you repeat the same thing over and over

3) and he was right

TurtleDude said:

1) your claim about taxes is dubious at best and fails to address the fact that many don't pay what for what they use.

2) you repeat the same thing over and over

3) and he was right

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1- you continue to suffer from CONSTANT COSTCO CONFUSION. It is a self induced willful malady in which the individual confuses a retail shopping experience with the relationship of a citizen to their government.
2- since you have repeated the same tripe over and over again in thread after thread, it is rather hypocritical for you to criticize me or anyone for countering you with the truth.
3- you never presented any date, information or authoritative opinion to support that claim.

But what else is new?

haymarket said:

1- you continue to suffer from CONSTANT COSTCO CONFUSION. It is a self induced willful malady in which the individual confuses a retail shopping experience with the relationship of a citizen to their government.
2- since you have repeated the same tripe over and over again in thread after thread, it is rather hypocritical for you to criticize me or anyone for countering you with the truth.
3- you never presented any date, information or authoritative opinion to support that claim.

But what else is new?

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your silly rants about Cosco ignore many things

since you and others constantly whine that it is fair for the rich to pay as much as the masses-through their representatives decide since the rich cannot outvote the many I certainly can note that its not fair to demand others pay for what you use and refuse to pay for because the current system allows the many to vote themselves the wealth of others

what have you provided in support of your claims that the current system is Better?

whysoserious;1059305577]I have taken the early classes for business, but I don't have much of a need to go much further. I can read financial statements (I can even make financial statements from ledgers). The classes I have taken regarding these subjects are Financial Accounting, Managerial Accounting, Micro and Macro Economics, Theory of Interest, Actuary Math I, Probability & Stat I & II, and Risk Management and Insurance.

I understand how business works. I just don't agree with you about supply-side economics. I don't see how that means that I don't understand how business works.

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I have seen no evidence that you know how business works. Supply side is the only economic model that works and benefits the individual. I spent 35 years in the business world and can tell you that you don't know what you think you know.

That's true about profits. What does that have to do with not lowering taxes in Wisconsin? Were businesses not making profits there?

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Lowering taxes attracts new business and those businesses hire workers who also pays taxes. Supply side creates jobs and when you provide incentive to move into an area jobs and revenue grow.

Yes, 401k's are invested in a multitude of different area. Those types of retirement accounts, which are generally governed by a third-party rather than the individual who owns it, are about as deep as the typical person gets into the market. This is actually smart, since the market is akin to gambling and really requires a ton of knowledge in not only the companies to invest in but also probability.

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The individual investor in 401K has control over their money and options where to put it. They tell the third party where to put their investment and most of them put it in stocks or stock funds. Those stocks are affected by profits and without those profits people will lose their investment.

I

think the company makes that determination? Otherwise, instead of cutting taxes, it would be the government that would make that designation.

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It doesn't sound to me like you believe the company should make that determination since apparently you believe the company screws its employees.

Keep in mind, I only brought up my knowledge because you consistently attack my level of intelligence. I hope you reconsider.

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It isn't your intelligence I am attacking it is your business knowledge and basic common sense.

And I never called corporations evil. Thanks!

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Good, corporations aren't evil, they hire people, supplement shareholder retirement income, are good corporate citizens, and they pay a ton in taxes but corporate and the employees personal income taxes.

from Turtle Dude

your silly rants about Cosco ignore many things

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one of which is NOT your confusion with the retail shopping experience and the relationship of a citizen to their government. That is not ignored at all. You and your Constant Costco Confusion make that unavoidable.

haymarket said:

from Turtle Dude



one of which is NOT your confusion with the retail shopping experience and the relationship of a citizen to their government. That is not ignored at all. You and your Constant Costco Confusion make that unavoidable.

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you think anyone who doesn't like the current system is "unable to comprehend"

I want the slackers to pay for what they use so they understand the costs. and if they cannot afford it, they should do what most of us responsible citizens do -we don't demand others pay for stuff we ourselves cannot afford

QUOTE Conservative;

Exactly what I thought, you don't know the difference between a public union and a private sector union. Who do you think pays for the unions in Wisconsin? Where do the people working for those unions get their money?

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Now wonder your so screwed up, you don,t know that union members fund their unions out of the monthly dues that is collected.

My theory? LOL, public unions are funded by the taxpayers and private sector unions are funded by the companies.

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Strange theory there.

You don't seem to understand the concept.

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Yep,I just blundered around all these years in the dark. Enlighten me on the procedure that one would go thru to get a company to fund a union, are a Governor for that matter.

By the way, what local union do you belong to; are did belong to prior to your retirement? Musta been pretty high on the union totem pole to get all of the people to fund unions that they negociate contracts with. Seems to me that would bring a pack of NLRB shysters post-haste. :2wave:

donc;1059305666]Now wonder your so screwed up, you don,t know that union members fund their unions out of the monthly dues that is collected.

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Please tell me this is an act and you really aren't this dumb? Where do the workers get the money to pay their union dues which fund the unions?

Strange theory there.

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I know, the truth hurts. Taxpayers fund the public union employees

By the way, what local union do you belong to; are did belong to prior to your retirement? Musta been pretty high on the union totem pole to get all of the people to fund unions that they negociate contracts with. Seems to me that would bring a pack of NLRB shysters post-haste. :2wave:

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I never was stupid enough to pay union dues and did quite well for myself. I watched unions destroy a lot of businesses and individuals along with driving up costs for consumers. Never had any use for unions especially public unions. Private unions are a different story, don't like them but they don't impact me at all. They affect the company that pays the employees that belong to those unions.

donc said:

Now wonder your so screwed up, you don,t know that union members fund their unions out of the monthly dues that is collected.







Strange theory there.




Yep,I just blundered around all these years in the dark. Enlighten me on the procedure that one would go thru to get a company to fund a union, are a Governor for that matter.

By the way, what local union do you belong to; are did belong to prior to your retirement? Musta been pretty high on the union totem pole to get all of the people to fund unions that they negociate contracts with. Seems to me that would bring a pack of NLRB shysters post-haste. :2wave:

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why did the Clinton administration tell the DOL not to enforce the Beck decision

under both Bush's if a worker believed his rights-as established in the Beck decision-he could go the Dept of labor and if there was merit-an investigation would be conducted and agency lawyers would prosecute the case for the aggrieved. under Clinton no such help was forthcoming

Conservative said:

Please tell me this is an act and you really aren't this dumb? Where do the workers get the money to pay their union dues which fund the unions?




I know, the truth hurts. Taxpayers fund the public union employees






I never was stupid enough to pay union dues and did quite well for myself. I watched unions destroy a lot of businesses and individuals along with driving up costs for consumers. Never had any use for unions especially public unions. Private unions are a different story, don't like them but they don't impact me at all. They affect the company that pays the employees that belong to those unions.

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Definitions

Fund


To finance or underwrite.


Only in conservative land when you spend money at Whole Foods, you are actually funding Whole Foods. :lamo

Catawba said:

I'll call your bluff. Let's see your facts to back up that the Democrats have been the majority more in the last 3 decades?

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Answers.com - How many years have the Democrats controlled congress since 1950


US Congress opens under Democratic control


During the 12 years of Republican control of the House, from 1995 to 2006, the Republican majority ranged between 221 and 230 out of 435 seats, far less than the incoming Democratic majority. The Republicans prevailed on virtually every policy question not because of their numbers, because they were more determined and ruthless in serving the interests of the US ruling elite.

Catawba said:

To clean up the mess from the last decade. Obama has proposed to cut spending by $100 billion a year and raise revenues. That's what is needed to reduce our debt. Who is the last GOP president to do that?

I have no interest in tax increases, all I am saying is we should stop the tax breaks for the most wealthy so they once again pay their fair share, that together with spending cuts will enable us to finally reduce our debt.

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Cut all subsidies

"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has been punk'd, his office confirmed Wednesday. The Republican governor who is pushing legislation that would end collective bargaining for public employees was at the wrong end of a prank telephone call with a person he believed was David Koch, a conservative billionaire businessman.

In reality, the caller was Ian Murphy, a blogger from Buffalo, N.Y.

Koch and his brother, Charles, own Koch Industries, the largest privately owned company in America and one with significant operations in Wisconsin. Its political-action committee gave $43,000 to Walker's campaign, and David Koch gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which funded ads attacking Walker's opponent in last year's election.

The Kochs also give millions to support Americans For Prosperity, a conservative business group that launched a $320,000 television ad campaign in favor of Walker's legislation Wednesday.

Posing as David Koch, Murphy makes inflammatory statements on unions and Democrats. Walker says Wisconsin is at the vanguard of a set of states in which conservative governors are battling with workers over union rights. Walker agrees with the impersonator that Wisconsin is the "first domino."

"This is our moment," he says on the recording.

Walker also explains potential tactics for breaking the deadlock, including trying to lure Democratic senators who fled the state back to the Capitol to negotiate and then pushing the bill through while Republicans have the quorum needed to move the measure.

"If you had heard that I was going to talk to them, that would be the only reason why," Walker says on the recording.

The governor also said he planned to announce Thursday that state workers would start receiving notices that they're at risk for layoff. Walker says 5,000 to 6,000 such notices could be sent.

At the end of the call, the prankster says: "I'll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I'll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time."

"All right, that would be outstanding," Walker replies, adding the standoff is "all about getting our freedoms back."

Democrats seized on the recorded comments as evidence that Walker plans to go beyond budget cuts to crushing unions."
Nation & World | Prank sucks in Wisconsin governor | Seattle Times Newspaper

Conservative said:

Please tell me this is an act and you really aren't this dumb? Where do the workers get the money to pay their union dues which fund the unions?




I know, the truth hurts. Taxpayers fund the public union employees

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This is bull****, these people have earned the money use to pay their union dues. It doesn't matter where the money came from, when they earn it, they earned it.

I have a question, where do the millions of dollars come from that hedge fund managers make each year?

Wisconsin teacher salary statistics:

Rankings
Average Teacher Salary Rank: 20th
Starting Teacher Salary Rank: 49th
Salary raise last year: 4.7%
Salary raise over 10 years: 21.5%

How do salaries grow in Wisconsin?
Starting Salary: $25,222
Average Salary: $46,390

Total Expenditures: $8,654,346,758
Teacher Expenditures: $2,638,094,048
Percent Spent on Teachers: 30%"
Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390


"Public school teachers in Wisconsin earned a combined $75,587 in total average compensation – wages and benefits – in 2010, according to figures from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction"

Wisconsin Teachers Earned Average $75,587 in Total Compensation in 2010 | CNSnews.com

Why again is this extravagant for a professional with 4 - 8 years of college doing one of the most important jobs in the country?

Catawba said:

Wisconsin teacher salary statistics:

Rankings
Average Teacher Salary Rank: 20th
Starting Teacher Salary Rank: 49th
Salary raise last year: 4.7%
Salary raise over 10 years: 21.5%

How do salaries grow in Wisconsin?
Starting Salary: $25,222
Average Salary: $46,390

Total Expenditures: $8,654,346,758
Teacher Expenditures: $2,638,094,048
Percent Spent on Teachers: 30%"
Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390


"Public school teachers in Wisconsin earned a combined $75,587 in total average compensation – wages and benefits – in 2010, according to figures from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction"

Wisconsin Teachers Earned Average $75,587 in Total Compensation in 2010 | CNSnews.com

Why again is this extravagant for a professional with 4 - 8 years of college doing one of the most important jobs in the country?

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Because taxpayers can't afford to pay them an average of $75,000 a year. Because their benefits are totally out of line. Look at the numbers -- if those are even right -- their benefits are damn near as much as their salaries, for heaven's sake. And fighting for Viagra coverage? Really. Give me a break.

Oh, and they got a 4.7% increase last year....in one of the toughest economic climates our country has ever faced. No pity party here...

Please click here to learn about the situation in Wisconsin, what is really going on. Like, for example, when Walker came into office, there was a budget surplus of $120 million.

Note: In the article, highlighted text= link

Mr. Invisible said:

Please click here to learn about the situation in Wisconsin, what is really going on. Like, for example, when Walker came into office, there was a budget surplus of $120 million.

Note: In the article, highlighted text= link

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Governor Walker wants any wage increase over CPI to require a taxpayer vote. What's wrong with that? Well....that means the Dems won't have the same clout with the unions when they can't give away the store. Your link says that Wisconsin teachers haven't had an increase in 2 years. Catawba's link just above here states they received a 4.5% raise last year. Both are union friendly...who's right?

As to the surplus being turned into a deficit....I say :spin: :spin:

pbrauer said:

This is bull****, these people have earned the money use to pay their union dues. It doesn't matter where the money came from, when they earn it, they earned it.

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Earned their money from whom? Where do the Department's get the money to pay these people? No one said they didn't earn the money although some would disagree based upon results. The fact remains the taxpayers pay these employees as I stated.

Catawba said:

I have a question, where do the millions of dollars come from that hedge fund managers make each year?

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From private investors

MaggieD said:

As to the surplus being turned into a deficit....I say :spin:

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Wait a minute...how can that be spin? It seems pretty cut and dried to me.

ashurbanipal said:

Wait a minute...how can that be spin? It seems pretty cut and dried to me.

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From elsewhere on Mr. Invisible's link:

Correction: It's a Ginned-Up "Crisis," but Scott Walker Isn't Entirely to Blame for Wisconsin's Budget Gap

It's been widely reported that Scott Walker inherited a $120 million budget surplus, and then promptly created a budget deficit in order to break the backs of Wisconsin's public employees' unions. On Friday, I quoted Ezra Klein of the Washington Post explaining that Walker had " signed two business tax breaks and a conservative health-care policy experiment that lowers overall tax revenues (among other things). The new legislation was not offset, and it turned a surplus into a deficit."

Politifact did an analysis of this issue which shows that Walker in fact inherited a manageable, long-term budget gap and then spun it as an imminent crisis that must be addressed this year.

The reports stem from a a Jan. 31, 2011 memo prepared by Robert Lang, the director of the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, that was picked up by the Associated Press and a number of other outlets. It does state that Wisconsin was on course for a surplus this year, which the media reported that in good faith. The issue is what Politifact refers to as the memo's "fine print."

[It] outlines $258 million in unpaid bills or expected shortfalls in programs such as Medicaid services for the needy ($174 million alone), the public defender’s office and corrections. Additionally, the state owes Minnesota $58.7 million under a discontinued tax reciprocity deal.

The result, by our math and Lang’s, is the $137 million shortfall.

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MaggieD said:

From elsewhere on Mr. Invisible's link:

[/B]

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So in reality, they already had a deficit then.

Edit: And these tax cuts exacerbated the deficit.