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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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Zimmer

please read this

Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390

the radical right wing "source" you used for the teacher salary garbage has been discredited soundly.

this is from OneWisconsinNow about the source for your 'information'

Be warned: The MacIver Institute is a not a news service. It is not a member of the traditional media. It is a right wing educational “charitable” organization and it is gathering footage to advance its conservative, anti-worker agenda.

Talking to the MacIver Institute is abetting the conservative movement in its efforts to ensure progressive values and issues are not a part of the public policy debate. MacIver has spent considerable time criticizing the 2009-11 state budget, the Recovery Act, reforming the health insurance industry and stopping global climate change.

MacIver is financed and run by leading conservatives, many with long ties to the Republican Party. Speaking on camera with the MacIver Institute helps the conservative movement by giving legitimacy to its faux “reporting,” as its “interviews” are regularly posted on the MacIver website.

WHO IS THE MACIVER INSTITUTE
The MacIver Institute is a conservative, pro-corporate organization founded in 2009 to advance conservative ideas and values. Its top staff is long-time Republican campaign strategists and its board of directors includes leading Republicans, most notably Mark Block, the head of Americans for Prosperity-WI, Fred Lubar, deep-pocketed Republican donor and Jim Troupis, lawyer to leading Republicans such as Assembly Speaker Scott Jensen and ethically-challenged Supreme Court Justices Mike Gableman and Annette Ziegler.

Staff: MacIver’s top staffers include both the former Chief of Staff to Scott Jensen and former GOP state senate caucus head and campaign strategist for top Republicans including Attorney General JB Van Hollen.

Jensen Ties: Initially, MacIver attempted to distance itself from Jensen, stating through a spokesperson that the former Assembly Speaker has no “formal role” with the organization. An investigation by Eye On Wisconsin's Cory Liebmann revealed that the properties of several initial communications from MacIver included the electronic imprint of Scott Jensen. Milwaukee Magazine also talked with Jensen about his involvement and after a preliminary denial, the reporter wrote “Later, Jensen amended that he is a consultant and his ‘main client’ is Alliance for School Choices.” [Milwaukee Magazine.com, 3/10/09]

MACIVER METHODS
MacIver has begun dispatching a new staffer, former Rock County television reporter Bill Osmulski, to events to film events and create conservative propaganda pieces as “news reports.” These “reports” are put onto the MacIver website and available for public consumption.

ISSUE TARGETS
MacIver hews to the standard conservative lines and its talking points are echoed in the arguments of the state’s leading Republican elected officials. It has referred to the 2009-11 state budget as “$12.8 billion of bad” and “driven by politics and devoid of principle,” has called health insurance reforms at the federal level “budget busting” and has criticized cap and trade. Its top target though, has been the federal Recovery Act and the use of those funds by the state legislature. In repeated postings on its website, MacIver attempts to make the case the legislature and the federal government failed in efforts to solve the economic crisis created by the failed policies of the Bush administration and that the legislature and federal government have failed to create much-needed jobs. [MacIver Institute Website]

CREDIBILITY
Immediately after it hired its phony news “reporter,” MacIver was plunged into controversy when it was confirmed the MacIver staffer had gotten an interview with two elected officials by allowing the two elected officials “to think he was just interviewing the two politicians for a local television station, all three men confirmed...” [Wisconsin State Journal, 9/5/09]

CONSIDERATIONS
One Wisconsin Now supports healthy and vibrant public policy discussions and this rightfully requires public officials to regularly talk with the media. This does not apply to the MacIver Institute, an ideologically-driven organization, created to advance a policy agenda, in this case an ultra-conservative one.

The good news is MacIver can only film and put on its website what an individual says on camera. Any progressive who suddenly finds a MacIver camera thrust in his or her face should consider responding with a smiling response of “I am not interested in speaking with Scott Jensen’s right wing think tank.” As MacIver has been less-than-forthright about Jensen’s potential involvement in its operation, it would be interesting to see if they would post this video on their website.

No wonder some folks hate unions when they base it on right wing false information fueled by radical ideology.
 
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Others subsidize your standard living every day o fthe week and have done so for all of your life and will continue to do so. Thats how it works in a society of 310 million people. We all are in this together. Unless you live isolated on your own island nation -the only cheap shot here is you taking continual ones at people you call 'liberals'. You expressed anger because you had to take hits and now you want others to get hit also. That is not a recipe for success - only FAILURE.

your own words from your post #25




This race to the bottom has to stop and stop today. Instead of wanting to punish your fellow workers because you were punished, you should be in solidarity with them working to stop the downward trends.

You exactly subsidized me? It is not about punishing anyone or a race to the bottom. It is about paying someone what you feel is right. If Wisc. teachers think they can make more money elsewhere, go for it.

I also wonder if these teachers are committing fraud when they call in sick, get paid and then go protest.
 
from Washnut

You exactly subsidized me?

We all contribute to the betterment of each other. The read you drive on was not paid for in its entirety by you. The same for many other public service you use. We are all in it together unless you live by yourself on your own island nation.


It is not about punishing anyone or a race to the bottom. It is about paying someone what you feel is right.

You should convince some here who seem to feel it is. And I quoted some of it. When you buy goods in a retail situation, it is indeed about paying what you feel is right. Paying taxes and government services is not that sort of situation and it is false and wrong to equate them.


If Wisc. teachers think they can make more money elsewhere, go for it.

That is an option. So is staying there and fighting for their rights and working conditions. They have made their choice although I have no doubt some will take your option also.

I also wonder if these teachers are committing fraud when they call in sick, get paid and then go protest.

SICK can mean many things. It can impact you phuysically, emotionally, mentally, even all of those together rendering you temporarily ill suited to be in the classroom when other things are weighing so heavilly upon your mind. If my rights were about to be stripped from me, I would certainly be sick about that. I have no doubt that many in Wisconsin are feeling just that.
 
Yeah! Damn unions. How dare you raise worker's compensation, make sure conditions are safe, and promote an overall better work environment!?!?

www.epi.org/page/-/old/briefingpapers/143/bp143.pdf


So evil! They must be destroyed!

Unions have outlived their use. They have priced American workers out of the martkets. They protect and represent incompetent people. I agree with you completely...they ARE evil and need to be destroyed. Best way to do that is to let their contracts expire, refuse to rehire any of them, and hire new employees eager to actually be productive at a fair wage.
 
from Washnut



We all contribute to the betterment of each other. The read you drive on was not paid for in its entirety by you. The same for many other public service you use. We are all in it together unless you live by yourself on your own island nation.




You should convince some here who seem to feel it is. And I quoted some of it. When you buy goods in a retail situation, it is indeed about paying what you feel is right. Paying taxes and government services is not that sort of situation and it is false and wrong to equate them.




That is an option. So is staying there and fighting for their rights and working conditions. They have made their choice although I have no doubt some will take your option also.



SICK can mean many things. It can impact you phuysically, emotionally, mentally, even all of those together rendering you temporarily ill suited to be in the classroom when other things are weighing so heavilly upon your mind. If my rights were about to be stripped from me, I would certainly be sick about that. I have no doubt that many in Wisconsin are feeling just that.

My sense is that there is a definition of what sick means in their contract. It has been the view of many that when you decide to become a government worker there are some things you might not be able to do than if you are in the public sector. Should firefighters be allowed to strike? If not can they ask for an unlimited amount of pay and benefits. Can toll workers decide to close the highways if they don't get paid $250K per year? Can police decide they can charge the public for their services, so that if you held up and call 911 the operator can ask for a credit card number. Clearly this is silly, but so is the thought that unions that elect their bosses can decide how much they get to be paid and the pension they get.
 
Unions have outlived their use. They have priced American workers out of the martkets. They protect and represent incompetent people. I agree with you completely...they ARE evil and need to be destroyed. Best way to do that is to let their contracts expire, refuse to rehire any of them, and hire new employees eager to actually be productive at a fair wage.

So you say. I find it hard to believe that a group of people with a common interest of promoting safer work conditions, higher wages, etc is evil. But then again, anything that interferes with the long arm of big business must be evil.
 
Perhaps you forgot but democrats pay taxes too!

You see, these teachers are getting paid like superstars, and well... I don't mind paying superstars well, but that should be the free market deciding... not the standard... and when our schools suck dick, and the states are in the red beyond their eyeballs... I think this is one of many prime places to cut.

People should also be able to opt out of joining cartels... I mean unions.

.
 
So you say. I find it hard to believe that a group of people with a common interest of promoting safer work conditions, higher wages, etc is evil. But then again, anything that interferes with the long arm of big business must be evil.

I say its silly and not a little bit pathetic that you keep hearkening back to the 1920's as your justification for preserving unions. Should I point to the 70's and 80's and say that because of that era all unions are nothing more than fronts for organized crime activity?
 
Others subsidize your standard living every day o fthe week and have done so for all of your life and will continue to do so. Thats how it works in a society of 310 million people. We all are in this together. Unless you live isolated on your own island nation -the only cheap shot here is you taking continual ones at people you call 'liberals'. You expressed anger because you had to take hits and now you want others to get hit also. That is not a recipe for success - only FAILURE.

your own words from your post #25

This race to the bottom has to stop and stop today. Instead of wanting to punish your fellow workers because you were punished, you should be in solidarity with them working to stop the downward trends.
In red: Dude... we do not live in a collective. Nowhere in The Constitution does it say anything about the common collective. It is about individuals, and individual rights... and Limited Government.

Race to the bottom. We are there. Socialists have screwed this country good. Now it is time for adults like Walker to begin fixing the mess and shedding a little sobriety amongst the masses.


Zimmer

please read this

Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390

the radical right wing "source" you used for the teacher salary garbage has been discredited soundly.

this is from OneWisconsinNow about the source for your 'information'



No wonder some folks hate unions when they base it on right wing false information fueled by radical ideology.
Try again with your voodoo.

The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.
Somebody pays for those benefits... the taxpayer... they do not come out of thin air. That can be considered salary.
 
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from Washnut

My sense is that there is a definition of what sick means in their contract.

Then it should be easy for you to find that definition since contracts with public employees like teachers are of public record.

I taught for 33 years and can tell you that there was NO SUCH DEFINITION in my contract.
 
from Zimmer

In red: Dude... we do not live in a collective. Nowhere in The Constitution does it say anything about the common collective. It is about individuals, and individual rights... and Limited Government.

It is called a SOCIETY that we live in. That is all of us together.

Maybe the copy of the Constitution you are using is flawed and does not have the same material that mine does. The first three words of mine say WE THE PEOPLE. Not WE THE LONERS AND INDIVIDUALS.
And right after that is a uniting of the people to form a more perfect UNION.

You need a new copy of the Constitution my friend.
 
You see, these teachers are getting paid like superstars, and well... I don't mind paying superstars well, but that should be the free market deciding... not the standard... and when our schools suck dick, and the states are in the red beyond their eyeballs... I think this is one of many prime places to cut.

People should also be able to opt out of joining cartels... I mean unions.

.
40K a year is 'superstar' pay?
 
So you say. I find it hard to believe that a group of people with a common interest of promoting safer work conditions, higher wages, etc is evil. But then again, anything that interferes with the long arm of big business must be evil.

Any group that makes 25% more money, on the average, than a privaye sector employee, then turns around and demands more taxes from thos under-employed/un-employed private sector, middle class workers, is evil.
 
40K a year is 'superstar' pay?

Depends on what you do for a living and where you live. My employees make 40-45 grand a year. None of them have a degree, only a couple of them have a high school diploma, or a GED. We live in Louisiana. So, yes, 40 g's is superstar pay for someone who didn't even finish high school. That's before Obama killed their jobs, though.
 
Depends on what you do for a living and where you live. My employees make 40-45 grand a year. None of them have a degree, only a couple of them have a high school diploma, or a GED. We live in Louisiana. So, yes, 40 g's is superstar pay for someone who didn't even finish high school. That's before Obama killed their jobs, though.
gonna have to be several tens of thousands more before i would consider something to be 'superstar' pay.
 
gonna have to be several tens of thousands more before i would consider something to be 'superstar' pay.

It's all about perspective.
 
I say its silly and not a little bit pathetic that you keep hearkening back to the 1920's as your justification for preserving unions. Should I point to the 70's and 80's and say that because of that era all unions are nothing more than fronts for organized crime activity?

I think it is silly that you can remember why they were created and still find them to be erroneous. Unions were created because workers were being taken advantage of, and it is silly to think that without them they wouldn't be taken advantage of again.

Business has one goal: make money. If there is no force to control business, business will screw you. I have no issue with big business, but it does need controls.
 
You see, these teachers are getting paid like superstars, and well... I don't mind paying superstars well, but that should be the free market deciding... not the standard... and when our schools suck dick, and the states are in the red beyond their eyeballs... I think this is one of many prime places to cut.

People should also be able to opt out of joining cartels... I mean unions.

.

Superstars? How much are teachers being paid that you can compare them to superstars?

Side question: How much do you believe the people that teach our children should be paid?
 
Superstars? How much are teachers being paid that you can compare them to superstars?

Side question: How much do you believe the people that teach our children should be paid?

I think our teachers should be paid generously but they shouldn't have bargaining tools. They must pay for retirement and health benefits just as most "normal folk" do. Also they should feel the pressure, maybe they will actually start teaching our kids instead of just claiming a paycheck and counting the days to summer break.
 
Superstars? How much are teachers being paid that you can compare them to superstars?

Side question: How much do you believe the people that teach our children should be paid?

Average teacher pay is 42k. They get paid pretty well, but its not superstar pay.
 
Superstars? How much are teachers being paid that you can compare them to superstars?

Side question: How much do you believe the people that teach our children should be paid?

Try a hundred grand on for size.
 
Rachel Maddow made an excellent point on her show the other night. If Republicans can remove unions from the picture, they remove the only large donors the Democrats have. All of the corporations overwhelmingly support the GOP. With Unions out of the picture, all of the big money influencing elections will be by corporations.

Anyone up for one party rule? I'm sure that's worked out fine when its been used in the past, right?
 
Rachel Maddow made an excellent point on her show the other night. If Republicans can remove unions from the picture, they remove the only large donors the Democrats have. All of the corporations overwhelmingly support the GOP. With Unions out of the picture, all of the big money influencing elections will be by corporations.

Anyone up for one party rule? I'm sure that's worked out fine when its been used in the past, right?

Yeah in China and look how that turned out. :2razz:
 
Democrats left town to avoid vote. Is this how the democrats and unions show civility that Obama called for last month?

This is what you do when have nothing of substantive to argue. These Democrats are lost in a dream world where reality doesn't inter into the conversations.

Obama and all his Democrat minions believe all you have to do is tax the hell out of the people and keep spending like there is no tomorrow.

Now it's time to pay the piper and the Liberals want to blame eveyone but themselves for over spending and the Unions which are in my opinion obsolete and no better than organized crime.
 
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