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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How do you explain tax revenue growing after the tax increases under Clinton? How do you explain tax revenue growing in the absence of any change to tax rates?
    I would explain it as the 1994 elections that put the GOP in charge and a GOP that recinded most of those tax increases. You were probably too young to understand

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I would explain it as the 1994 elections that put the GOP in charge and a GOP that recinded most of those tax increases. You were probably too young to understand
    So it's tax cuts, except when it isn't and you got to blame it on something else with zero data. Your argument is looking kinda silly.

    By the way, I was already out of the military when this happened. Your backassed insult failed miserably. When you have to resort to stupid **** like that, it is pretty much proof that you know you have failed and are looking for anything to save face.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, my point is state employee and retiree salaries and benefits are NOT the main cause of these state's budget shortfalls, and the collective bargaining power afforded state employee unions should not be held accountable for any given state's inability to balance their own budgets. The legislators created the mess, but state employees are paying for it. That's wrong.
    Everybody is going to have to pay for it. And, yes, legislators created the mess. Gov. Walker wants to take bargaining wages out of the legislators' hands and put it in the hands of the people. I have no problem with that. Why should you?

    (BTW, let's not be patronizing here, okay? I may be a state employee, but I pay city, state and federal taxes just as everyone else. I pay my property taxes same as you. I shop at retail stores same as you. I live in much the same way as everybody else. So, let's not attempt to differentiate one world view from another simply because I work in state government. Contrary to popular belief, I live in the exact same world as you do. My association with public (state and federal government) and private sector employment may provide me with a better perspective on these such issues than you may otherwise believe. So, let's first seek to understand one another then be understood, before passing judgment shall we?)
    Your list of what was being asked of state employees got my goat. It's being asked of everyone. No one is singling out the public sector. People who work for state governments and have defined benefit pension plans have a different world view because they live in a different world. Their pensions are far and away more generous than the private sector employees who have to pay for them.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So it's tax cuts, except when it isn't and you got to blame it on something else with zero data. Your argument is looking kinda silly.

    By the way, I was already out of the military when this happened. Your backassed insult failed miserably. When you have to resort to stupid **** like that, it is pretty much proof that you know you have failed and are looking for anything to save face.
    Well, well, well, I knew there was a reason that I didn't respond to you in the past. I used poor judgment and decided to give you another chance. Looks like I was wrong.

    Amazing that this is still about you keeping more of what you earn and I am the only one defending it. Your lack of economic understanding is staggering. Obviously you don't understand that tax cuts mean more take home pay and less need for all that govt. help that you want to promote. I certainly hope that you are sending your tax cuts back since apparently the govt. needs the money more than you do.

    For someone that claims to have served in the military you sure have a distorted view of the U.S. Economy and what drives it. Doubt seriously that you did indeed serve but that is irrelevant. Figure out the components of GDP and get back to me. Then you might be able to figure out how tax cuts and tax increases affect economic growth. The word incentive doesn't seem to exist in the liberal world.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Well, well, well, I knew there was a reason that I didn't respond to you in the past. I used poor judgment and decided to give you another chance. Looks like I was wrong.

    Amazing that this is still about you keeping more of what you earn and I am the only one defending it. Your lack of economic understanding is staggering. Obviously you don't understand that tax cuts mean more take home pay and less need for all that govt. help that you want to promote. I certainly hope that you are sending your tax cuts back since apparently the govt. needs the money more than you do.

    For someone that claims to have served in the military you sure have a distorted view of the U.S. Economy and what drives it. Doubt seriously that you did indeed serve but that is irrelevant. Figure out the components of GDP and get back to me. Then you might be able to figure out how tax cuts and tax increases affect economic growth. The word incentive doesn't seem to exist in the liberal world.
    Hey look, more insults, and complete avoiding talking about my point. Good job! When you have some one beat, you can always tell.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    People line up to work at Walmarts because once a Walmart moves in, they will not be able to compete with them
    Competition in the free market is new to you? I blame our education system.
    If Wal-Mart moved in to compete, you can move out to compete.
    You can also pick a market to compete in without Wal-Mart. Hell, you can use Wal-Mart in your supply chain.

    You don't really have a point in any of this.
    Last edited by Mach; 02-24-11 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Of course they do not participate in small markets
    Contradicts:
    you are already stopped the moment your business starts to try to compete with theirs.
    If they are not in that market, they are NOT COMPETING WITH YOU.

    Hell, even tiny fish still routinely displace the giant global brands. How did Gates compete with IBM again? Papa Johns with PizzaHut/Dominos?

    You have to find new reasoning to back up your beliefs, because these are obviously false.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey look, more insults, and complete avoiding talking about my point. Good job! When you have some one beat, you can always tell.
    Sounds like you asked for it or expected it after this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    By the way, I was already out of the military when this happened. Your backassed insult failed miserably. When you have to resort to stupid **** like that, it is pretty much proof that you know you have failed and are looking for anything to save face.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Contradicts:


    If they are not in that market, they are NOT COMPETING WITH YOU.

    Hell, even tiny fish still routinely displace the giant global brands. How did Gates compete with IBM again? Papa Johns with PizzaHut/Dominos?

    You have to find new reasoning to back up your beliefs, because these are obviously false.
    Actually the don't contradict. They do not participate in small markets because they go regional/national/global and in doing so, they eat up the small markets in the process.

    I like how you take my quotes of context and you have to find new reasoning that I am wrong because your old reasons are obviously false.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Everybody is going to have to pay for it. And, yes, legislators created the mess. Gov. Walker wants to take bargaining wages out of the legislators' hands and put it in the hands of the people. I have no problem with that. Why should you?
    I have a problem with it with the only voice public employees have is via their union representation. And judging by what Gov. Walker has done to date, it's pretty obvious he wants to silence that voice, thereby, giving public employees no say in salaries, wages, employee benefits, holiday time off (paid or unpaid) and a host of other issues that ARE afforded private sector employees. Imagine if you will state legislators voting themselves pay increases or changing their benefit packages WITHOUT the confidence of the people they represent - the voters? It happens all the time even in the U.S. Congress, but how many voters know about it in a timely fashion to say anything about, for or against? Now, imagine this same thing happening (staying with the example of state legislators) in hard economic times, but legislators deny state employees a pay raise. They get one, but state employees don't...and the reason given, "it's the economy...our budget can't afford a pay increase".

    You see, this is EXACTLY what happened in my state three years ago, but very few people across the state knew anything about it until word leaked out the next time the legislature tried to vote themselves another pay raise. This time, people all across the state complained and not surprisingly, the vote failed. Now, while this wasn't a union issue, the larger point I'm trying to address is if left up to the legislators they won't have the interest of the state employee in mind; they'll have their own agenda. The ONLY way to make this process fair is to insist that pay raises or any other benefit afforded to state legislators is tied to state employees. In short, if they vote themselves a pay raise, ALL state employees should get one as well. Since WE ALL work for the People and our income is taxpayer funded. No free rides, but TOTAL fairness as well. Better yet, put the vote to the People. If they believe public servants are doing a good enough job to warrant a pay raise, their vote will determine such.


    Your list of what was being asked of state employees got my goat. It's being asked of everyone. No one is singling out the public sector. People who work for state governments and have defined benefit pension plans have a different world view because they live in a different world. Their pensions are far and away more generous than the private sector employees who have to pay for them.
    Again, I'd like to see some evidence of this, but even IF that's the case, such can be brought back into balance WITHOUT silencing the voices of the few advocates public servants have within their state governments. Using a state's financies woes as an excuse to disband unions for public employees is nothing more than a ploy. Attack the real problem with real solutions, not trumped up BS.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-24-11 at 06:21 PM.

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