Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

ptif219 said:

That is deception. One is income one is capital gains not the same situation

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the whole Buffett charade is a joke to anyone who understands the reality of the situation

ptif219 said:

You make no sense. How about you compare the governors salary to school admistration salary like the school superintendents

Local school superintendents average $130,000 - JSOnline

Public school districts in southeastern Wisconsin reported paying their top leaders an average salary of nearly $130,000 in the 2009-'10 school year

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And Walker's bill does nothing to address Superintendent salaries. It only makes teachers pay more of their healthcare and pension costs. Superintendents will not be touched. Therefore your point is moot.

It only proves that people who make less are being made to sacrifice, while those who make more aren't asked to sacrifice a thing.

Thank you for continually making my points for me.

FilmFestGuy said:

And Walker's bill does nothing to address Superintendent salaries. It only makes teachers pay more of their healthcare and pension costs. Superintendents will not be touched. Therefore your point is moot.

It only proves that people who make less are being made to sacrifice, while those who make more aren't asked to sacrifice a thing.

Thank you for continually making my points for me.

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as they should

in Ohio the teachers contribute 11% of their salary

what do they do here?

ptif219 said:

That is deception. One is income one is capital gains not the same situation

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What a load of manure. Any money going in your pocket is income. The rich have found a way to cheat. Its pure and simple. All money going into anybodys pocket should be taxed as income.

haymarket said:

What a load of manure. Any money going in your pocket is income. The rich have found a way to cheat. Its pure and simple. All money going into anybodys pocket should be taxed as income.

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more rantings about the rich

LOL

what silly generalizations

envy and spite towards the rich

its so amusing

FilmFestGuy said:

And Walker's bill does nothing to address Superintendent salaries. It only makes teachers pay more of their healthcare and pension costs. Superintendents will not be touched. Therefore your point is moot.

It only proves that people who make less are being made to sacrifice, while those who make more aren't asked to sacrifice a thing.

Thank you for continually making my points for me.

Click to expand...

No it means people that have the free ride of unions will no longer get big raises they do not deserve. If the teachers were doing their job you might have a point.

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can

Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

haymarket said:

What a load of manure. Any money going in your pocket is income. The rich have found a way to cheat. Its pure and simple. All money going into anybodys pocket should be taxed as income.

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No congress has done this and no one else

TurtleDude said:

more rantings about the rich

LOL

what silly generalizations

envy and spite towards the rich

its so amusing

Click to expand...

The Top Ten Turtle Responses that Pretty Much Cover All His Posts

Turtletalk #1 - The democrats want to increase taxes on the rich to keep them empowered with the votes of the poor.

Turtletalk #2 - you are all envious of my money and wealth

Turtletalk #3 - you do not have an Ivy League education like I do

Turtletalk #4 - I'm a lawyer and actually went to law school

Turtletalk #5 - socialists want to use up service that they never pay for and want the upper 2% to pay for them

Turtletalk #6 - I pay more taxes in one month than the total income of most of your for one whole year

Turtletalk #7 - I took a class in that in college so I know more than you do about it

Turtletalk #8 - FDR bullied the Supreme Court into ignoring the law and the Tenth Amendment

Turtletalk #9 - If I want that government service I will pay for it - otherwise I should not have to pay for it

Turtletalk #10 - the upper class pays more taxes than everybody else combined and only they should be allowed to vote

see Turtle - all; you had to do was make a post like this

from turtle

#2

Click to expand...

Look at all the time and effort you would save.

ptif219 said:

That is deception. One is income one is capital gains not the same situation

Click to expand...

And that only proves that we cherish wealth over work. If we tax income earned by stashing money someplace at a lower rate than money earned through work, we value wealth over work. The wealthy aren't being asked to sacrifice a thing, while working people are asked to make all the sacrifices after the collapse.

It may be true that the top 1% pay 40% of taxes; but they also own nearly about 40% of the wealth. So their "burden" is actually accurate to what they own and earn. However, this analysis is too simple, because the top 1% stop paying payroll taxes at $106,000 - so that tax burden begins to decline as they earn more, making payroll taxes regressive rather than progressive.

For instance: a teacher making $50,000 will pay 25% of his income in FIT + 6.5% (or so) in payroll taxes. Thus, about 31.5% will be taken by the government (not counting loopholes, like mortgage deductions). Walker at $137,000 will pay 28% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall tax burden would be about 33%; thus the difference lowers from 3% in income tax to 1.5% overall. Say, a superintendent makes $400,000. He would pay 35% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall burden would be 36.1%, just 4.6 points more than the teacher. As income rises, this burden lowers. The top 1% earn an average of $1.3 million. So they pay 35% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall burden = 35.5% or only 4 points more than someone who makes 26 times what the teacher makes. If the income were capital gains (like it is for the Top 25 Hedge Fund Managers who made $1 BILLION each only pay 17.7% on their incomes and NO payrool taxes because their income is capital gains); then the person making $1.3 million would pay a burden of 11% LESS than the teachers we are attacking now and apparently considering the same thing as welfare queens.

Once again: the people who benefit most from our economy are asked to sacrifice the least; and the people who educate our children are now enemies of the state.

haymarket said:

The Top Ten Turtle Responses that Pretty Much Cover All His Posts

Turtletalk #1 - The democrats want to increase taxes on the rich to keep them empowered with the votes of the poor.

Turtletalk #2 - you are all envious of my money and wealth

Turtletalk #3 - you do not have an Ivy League education like I do

Turtletalk #4 - I'm a lawyer and actually went to law school

Turtletalk #5 - socialists want to use up service that they never pay for and want the upper 2% to pay for them

Turtletalk #6 - I pay more taxes in one month than the total income of most of your for one whole year

Turtletalk #7 - I took a class in that in college so I know more than you do about it

Turtletalk #8 - FDR bullied the Supreme Court into ignoring the law and the Tenth Amendment

Turtletalk #9 - If I want that government service I will pay for it - otherwise I should not have to pay for it

Turtletalk #10 - the upper class pays more taxes than everybody else combined and only they should be allowed to vote

see Turtle - all; you had to do was make a post like this

from turtle



Look at all the time and effort you would save.

Click to expand...

Off topic must mean Turtle got to you again

ptif219 said:

Off topic must mean Turtle got to you again

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an astute observation

FilmFestGuy said:

And that only proves that we cherish wealth over work. If we tax income earned by stashing money someplace at a lower rate than money earned through work, we value wealth over work. The wealthy aren't being asked to sacrifice a thing, while working people are asked to make all the sacrifices after the collapse.

It may be true that the top 1% pay 40% of taxes; but they also own nearly about 40% of the wealth. So their "burden" is actually accurate to what they own and earn. However, this analysis is too simple, because the top 1% stop paying payroll taxes at $106,000 - so that tax burden begins to decline as they earn more, making payroll taxes regressive rather than progressive.

For instance: a teacher making $50,000 will pay 25% of his income in FIT + 6.5% (or so) in payroll taxes. Thus, about 31.5% will be taken by the government (not counting loopholes, like mortgage deductions). Walker at $137,000 will pay 28% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall tax burden would be about 33%; thus the difference lowers from 3% in income tax to 1.5% overall. Say, a superintendent makes $400,000. He would pay 35% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall burden would be 36.1%, just 4.6 points more than the teacher. As income rises, this burden lowers. The top 1% earn an average of $1.3 million. So they pay 35% + 6.5% up to $106,000. Overall burden = 35.5% or only 4 points more than someone who makes 26 times what the teacher makes. If the income were capital gains (like it is for the Top 25 Hedge Fund Managers who made $1 BILLION each only pay 17.7% on their incomes and NO payrool taxes because their income is capital gains); then the person making $1.3 million would pay a burden of 11% LESS than the teachers we are attacking now and apparently considering the same thing as welfare queens.

Once again: the people who benefit most from our economy are asked to sacrifice the least; and the people who educate our children are now enemies of the state.

Click to expand...

work is a means to an end

as a former world class shooter I TRAINED TO win

and winning was cherished over training

and making money and paying for stuff is cherished over working


the people who benefit the most are those who would have starved during most of history

the unproductive and the untalented

ptif219 said:

No it means people that have the free ride of unions will no longer get big raises they do not deserve. If the teachers were doing their job you might have a point.

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can

Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

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SAT and ACT Average Scores by States

Wisconsin: 2nd in the nation in ACT / SAT scores.

Last: South Carolina; 49th - North Carolina; 48th - Georgia; 47th - Texas; 44th - Virginia.

These are the only 5 states that disallow collective bargaining for teachers.

Wisconsin: Aiming for the bottom, thanks to Scott Walker!

Suggets that better paid teachers create better prepared students.

TurtleDude said:

work is a means to an end

as a former world class shooter I TRAINED TO win

and winning was cherished over training

and making money and paying for stuff is cherished over working


the people who benefit the most are those who would have starved during most of history

the unproductive and the untalented

Click to expand...

Yet even more shameless self promotion. The thread is not about YOU. Please stay on topic.

TurtleDude said:

work is a means to an end

as a former world class shooter I TRAINED TO win

and winning was cherished over training

and making money and paying for stuff is cherished over working


the people who benefit the most are those who would have starved during most of history

the unproductive and the untalented

Click to expand...

You're right Paris Hilton benefits A LOT from the policies you support.

And she is unproductive and untalented.

and why do you class warriors talk about percentages when in actual dollars the rich pay most of the fit. and a teacher isn't paying 25% taxes on his 50K salary.


The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

FilmFestGuy said:

SAT and ACT Average Scores by States

Wisconsin: 2nd in the nation in ACT / SAT scores.

Last: South Carolina; 49th - North Carolina; 48th - Georgia; 47th - Texas; 44th - Virginia.

These are the only 5 states that disallow collective bargaining for teachers.

Wisconsin: Aiming for the bottom, thanks to Scott Walker!

Suggets that better paid teachers create better prepared students.

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Your link is from 1999 not very credibile

ptif219 said:

Your link is from 1999 not very credibile

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the cause and effect is not established

some one might point out that wisconsin does not have near as many minorities who tend to do far worse on standardized tests as those southern states

ptif219 said:

Your link is from 1999 not very credibile

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TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): SAT scores. States ranked by average score

Appears it hadn't changed much by 2007. Point stands.

Turtle is right, though: it doesn't necessarily prove causality. However, it does merit investigation.

I don't think it breaks common sense to say that better-paid teachers are happier teachers; and happier teachers are likely to better educate their students than disgruntled teachers are. That's sort of the standard in any workforce. Happier workers are better workers.

FilmFestGuy said:

TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): SAT scores. States ranked by average score

Appears it hadn't changed much by 2007. Point stands.

Turtle is right, though: it doesn't necessarily prove causality. However, it does merit investigation.

I don't think it breaks common sense to say that better-paid teachers are happier teachers; and happier teachers are likely to better educate their students than disgruntled teachers are. That's sort of the standard in any workforce. Happier workers are better workers.

Click to expand...

so lets give the union a million a person and all our children will be Rhodes Scholars?

FilmFestGuy said:

TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): SAT scores. States ranked by average score

Appears it hadn't changed much by 2007. Point stands.

Turtle is right, though: it doesn't necessarily prove causality. However, it does merit investigation.

I don't think it breaks common sense to say that better-paid teachers are happier teachers; and happier teachers are likely to better educate their students than disgruntled teachers are. That's sort of the standard in any workforce. Happier workers are better workers.

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Yet in 2009 8th graders are behind on reading

TurtleDude said:

what that comment says is untruthful

buffett takes only 100K in the higher taxed salary income (how many executives of his level take onl 100K in salary?) why does he do that?

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It is true, in 2007 Buffett publicly challenged the members of the fortune 500 club to show him they paid a higher tax rate than their receptionist he would give them a million dollars. To this date he has had no takers.

Wisconsin and the GOP's War on the Middle Class



"It is an act of war. America's class war has arrived on our doorstep with the subtlety of a daisy cutter. Now, the big questions are the outcome, and whether Democrats will show America whose side they are on.

What Conservatives Really Want

Conservatives are trying to eliminate the last "good jobs" left in America. They're not just targeting public employees and public employee unions, but the very concepts of a common good and a public interest. George Lakoff explained that "Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life," in which " ... it would be wrong for the government to provide health care, education, public broadcasting, public parks and so on."

When abstract budget cuts translate into fewer teachers, police officers, health workers, firefighters, etc. in our communities, we begin to realize that such cuts hurt rather than heal. We provide these things because we believe meeting certain needs, whether or not it's profitable is a common good.

We are faced with a conservative movement that rejects the common good, and sees it as the problem.

Ideology vs. Reality: Something Has To Give

Wisconsin and other states are where the irresistible force of ideology meets the immovable object of reality. Like the Johnny Mercer lyric that says, "something's gotta give." As America looked on at the amazing protests in Egypt, we heard how Egypt's economic inequality catalyzed a movement. We learned that economic inequality is worse here than in Egypt. It's no coincidence protesters in Cairo and Madison have exchanged statements of solidarity.


What does it mean when Americans in Madison, Wis., see themselves in the same boat at protesters in Egypt? It means that our domestic economic policies have mirrored our economically driven foreign policy, with consequences as devastating to working and middle-class Americans. Mother Jones magazine spelled it out in just eight charts.

A Lost Middle Class, Unbridled Corporate Power

This attack on the things government does that support the middle class, comes when the middle class is already weakened by decades of conservative policies. If it succeeds, We're facing a "lost decade" in which middle and working-class Americans suffer the loss of these supports, facing stagnation and downward mobility, and worse. As Kevin Drum notes, destroying unions removes the only remaining counterbalance to corporate power.

Wisconsin illustrates that conservative economic and fiscal policies create crises that Republicans then exploit to accomplish political ends -- weakening their opponents and increasing power for themselves and their cronies. In a short time, Walker has destroyed (and threatened to destroy more) jobs than his policies are likely to create. The $117 billion in tax breaks that Walker and the Republican legislature pushed through for GOP cronies basically created the very crisis he claims to address.

That Walker refuses any compromise at all, even though the unions agreed to accept wage and benefit reductions as long as they keep the right to collective bargaining, shows that the budget isn't the point. Power is."[/QUOTE]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terrance-heath/wisconsin-the-gops-war-on_b_827847.html

Catawba said:

Wisconsin and the GOP's War on the Middle Class

"It is an act of war. America's class war has arrived on our doorstep with the subtlety of a daisy cutter. Now, the big questions are the outcome, and whether Democrats will show America whose side they are on.

What Conservatives Really Want

Conservatives are trying to eliminate the last "good jobs" left in America. They're not just targeting public employees and public employee unions, but the very concepts of a common good and a public interest. George Lakoff explained that "Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life," in which " ... it would be wrong for the government to provide health care, education, public broadcasting, public parks and so on."

When abstract budget cuts translate into fewer teachers, police officers, health workers, firefighters, etc. in our communities, we begin to realize that such cuts hurt rather than heal. We provide these things because we believe meeting certain needs, whether or not it's profitable is a common good.

We are faced with a conservative movement that rejects the common good, and sees it as the problem.

Ideology vs. Reality: Something Has To Give

Wisconsin and other states are where the irresistible force of ideology meets the immovable object of reality. Like the Johnny Mercer lyric that says, "something's gotta give." As America looked on at the amazing protests in Egypt, we heard how Egypt's economic inequality catalyzed a movement. We learned that economic inequality is worse here than in Egypt. It's no coincidence protesters in Cairo and Madison have exchanged statements of solidarity.


What does it mean when Americans in Madison, Wis., see themselves in the same boat at protesters in Egypt? It means that our domestic economic policies have mirrored our economically driven foreign policy, with consequences as devastating to working and middle-class Americans. Mother Jones magazine spelled it out in just eight charts.

A Lost Middle Class, Unbridled Corporate Power

This attack on the things government does that support the middle class, comes when the middle class is already weakened by decades of conservative policies. If it succeeds, We're facing a "lost decade" in which middle and working-class Americans suffer the loss of these supports, facing stagnation and downward mobility, and worse. As Kevin Drum notes, destroying unions removes the only remaining counterbalance to corporate power.

Wisconsin illustrates that conservative economic and fiscal policies create crises that Republicans then exploit to accomplish political ends -- weakening their opponents and increasing power for themselves and their cronies. In a short time, Walker has destroyed (and threatened to destroy more) jobs than his policies are likely to create. The $117 billion in tax breaks that Walker and the Republican legislature pushed through for GOP cronies basically created the very crisis he claims to address.

That Walker refuses any compromise at all, even though the unions agreed to accept wage and benefit reductions as long as they keep the right to collective bargaining, shows that the budget isn't the point. Power is."

Click to expand...

Terrance Heath: Wisconsin and the GOP's War on the Middle Class[/QUOTE]

What do conservatives really want? A permanent peasant class OF COURSE.:2wave:

TurtleDude said:

I love the people who cannot understand the difference between top marginal rates (which has NOTHING to do with how progressive the tax system is) versus how much of the tax burden the top pays (which is the most important factor)

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I love people who twist the truth to their liking. The top marginal rate means each individual tax payer pays more taxes. That is the essence of the progressive tax system.