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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

  1. #511
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    That's fiction, sorry.

    China and India are some of the largst emerging markets in human history, and you're free to go for a piece of that pie, or make more pie, RIGHT NOW. And you COMPLAIN that it's all drying up!? It's like complaining no one as cell phones, as cell phones are ringing and being answered all around you as you claim it.

    Think about it carefully. Who is preventing you from going out and starting a business right now? You are. But worse, you're spreading false propoganda that is essentially suggesting that people can't go out and compete in the free market, and that the market is fixed, and that it's shrinking. Its' awful. Not starting a business...that's not awful, that's a life choice. Preaching to others the futility of it? Irresponsible.

    Foreign companies nearly kill to compete in our booming U.S. market. You somehow see it as an albatros. Please help me understand, how can you hold that belief in the face of a starkly opposite reality?

    If you don't go get a piece of the China pie (directly or indrectly), guess what, a billion other souls in the world who don't have it 10% as good as you do, are up for it.

    But it's in part our fault anyway..we are supposed to be preparing them for the market. Why do you think most americans emerging from our education system (public and private) are so unprepared for participation in a free market (as evidenced on this forum and in general anywhere you look)?
    Ok, let me see if you can grab this idea:

    The more wealth controlled by tiny amounts of people, the less wealth for the rest of the people. It's not a very hard concept to grasp. What is stopping people from starting a business? I don't know, lack of education, lack of funds, needing to finance tens of thousands of dollars to go to college (if they can get past the terrible education they received in public school), and coming out with mountains of debt. Then these people need to go out and buy a mortgage, while currently paying the the other mortgage they have - borrowed college tuition payments on interest. Yes, the juice is running on those.

    And on top of that you want people to borrow $400,000 to start a business in an economy that is struggling because of the very people you are trying to protect? You want people to go further into debt because you don't want to upset the people whose unethical packing/trading of derivatives, golden parachutes, bonuses, and poor management abilities caused the crash?

    What about when it happens again?

  2. #512
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I don't think anyone is discussing 20 million dollars. That's a drop in the pool.
    It could be 20 thousand, 20 million, 20 billion, 20 trillion... I want people to have the ability to make as much money as they can, without having to worry about the government or individuals seeking "social justice" and penalize them for making that money or conversely, rewarding them for making so little.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #513
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Why don't you address the points I raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Why do people always put words into my mouth? I never hated on anyone being rich.
    I never claimed you were hating on anyone, you're doing the same to me.
    Look at what you wrote:

    How is having a small percentage of rich people controlling most of the wealth while most are poor and uneducated good for society? Wealth breeds more wealth, some sort of market barrier is put into place, these people will only continue to get richer. What is positive about that?
    So yes, you clearly imply you do NOT believe it's a "positive" thing for:
    a small percentage of people having the highest wealth
    wealth breeding more wealth, the rich getting richer

    Wealth, and wealth breeding wealth according to your post = not positive (see below)

    And the one part you slipped in, about "while the most are poor and uneducated", I specifically asked you what country you believe this is the case in.
    If the U.S., you'll lose the argument.
    If not the U.S., it's irrelevant to this debate.

    So which is it? You clearly think SOMETHING isn't positive. And I'm pretty sure "not positive" can be synonymous with "bad" for the discussion. So no one put words in your mouth except you. I'm sure you can clear this all up though.

  4. #514
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Ok, let me see if you can grab this idea:

    The more wealth controlled by tiny amounts of people, the less wealth for the rest of the people. It's not a very hard concept to grasp. What is stopping people from starting a business? I don't know, lack of education, lack of funds, needing to finance tens of thousands of dollars to go to college (if they can get past the terrible education they received in public school), and coming out with mountains of debt. Then these people need to go out and buy a mortgage, while currently paying the the other mortgage they have - borrowed college tuition payments on interest. Yes, the juice is running on those.

    And on top of that you want people to borrow $400,000 to start a business in an economy that is struggling because of the very people you are trying to protect? You want people to go further into debt because you don't want to upset the people whose unethical packing/trading of derivatives, golden parachutes, bonuses, and poor management abilities caused the crash?

    What about when it happens again?
    Please tell me this is an act and you are doing this for attention? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? How can people get a poor education in public schools when most of them are funded by both state and Federal Dollars that rank at the top of the world?

  5. #515
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It could be 20 thousand, 20 million, 20 billion, 20 trillion... I want people to have the ability to make as much money as they can, without having to worry about the government or individuals seeking "social justice" and penalize them for making that money or conversely, rewarding them for making so little.
    Great, and how will you accomplish that with a less and less educated workforce that is unhealthy because of poor living conditions and unaffordable medical care, and having to support more and more people on welfare?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to pay people a living wage, provide affordable health care and education so they are a positive force for the economy rather than a drag on it?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #516
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please tell me this is an act and you are doing this for attention? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? How can people get a poor education in public schools when most of them are funded by both state and Federal Dollars that rank at the top of the world?
    Dude, funding doesn't mean squat. I can more $2 million into a school and people can still come out stupid.

    Also, taking into account what whysoserious said, Republicans Wall Street should have been allowed to fail. Doesn't saving them go against their notion of personal responsibility?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  7. #517
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    How do you figure? It's a rigged game just like at the casino. At some point, as the squeeze gets tighter and tighter, just like at every other point in history, something has to give and this is usually when revolutions begin. Our system is set up so that money trickles uphill, so what else would you expect to happen?

    There is room for some to join, but for ordinary people, as more people hit it big and then keep the money for family legacies, the less money there is to go around in the real world. If everyone was like Bill Gates and planned to donate most of the money back to charity when they died... yes, the system would work much better.
    People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.

    Guess what? The "pies" that the rich make, while they create jobs, also increase the amount of wealth they have, thus increasing their share of the pie.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  9. #519
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Nope, they can earn what they need.

    IF they want to change their circumstances then they can do so.

    In this case, 2/3 of Wisconsin kidds cannot read well...despite spending 10,700 per student, per year.

    Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Great, and how will you accomplish that with a less and less educated workforce that is unhealthy because of poor living conditions and unaffordable medical care, and having to support more and more people on welfare?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to pay people a living wage, provide affordable health care and education so they are a positive force for the economy rather than a drag on it?
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Dude, funding doesn't mean squat. I can more $2 million into a school and people can still come out stupid.

    Also, taking into account what whysoserious said, Republicans Wall Street should have been allowed to fail. Doesn't saving them go against their notion of personal responsibility?
    Exactly, now thanks for supporting Governor Walker. As for Wall Street, better find out where the campaign contributions went in 2008. Republicans are tied to Wall Street because the liberal elites realize that people like whysoserious will buy the rhetoric and to a liberal rhetoric trumps substance. Fact is Obama received some of the biggest contributions from Wall Street including Goldman Sachs.

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