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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Where are the details on the fringe benefits? Also, if you are adding in benefits to the teacher's salaries are you adding them into the average WI worker's salary? This all seems pretty weak so far. You just linked me to a site whose tag line is:

    "The Free Market Voice For Wisconsin".

    What are the odds that these guys might be a bit biased? I definitely need some numbers.
    I am DOING NOTHING....I suggest you ask the source of the information, the MacIver Institute. Regardless, as apparently you have no intellectual honesty...the LAWMAKERS make law, when this legislation is passed, NO UNION CONTRACT OR BYLAW has the authority to override the PEOPLE, who pays the salaries. What part of BROKE do you not comprehend? 3 Billion dollar budget shortfall? The firing of over 6000 public employee if these concessions are not made?
    Last edited by Walter; 02-21-11 at 12:50 AM.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you went from saying overwhelmingly to "gave more "

    you are making a fool of yourself
    They mean the same thing counselor. And they both make my point.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-21-11 at 01:38 AM.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Who is this free market monster? Why is the free market infallible? You know what the free market also produces?

    -Bernie Madoff
    -Enron
    -Insider Trading
    -Pollution
    -Declining Insurance Payments
    -Derivatives Trading
    -Price Setting

    To name just a few off the top of my head. So can we cut this "the free market is perfect" nonsense. The free market is a beast that if left untamed would destroy us.
    Yes, there are failures in the free market too, but the difference is you do not have institutionalized failure, as we have when the government takes over. You will have pockets, and these pockets become known, avoided and corrected... 100-times faster than government can.

    You do realize the United States government is responsible for the collapse of the US housing market and the related worldwide bank failures? OUR GOVERNMENT forced banks to make loans to people who could not afford to pay them back. There is video of Cuomo explaining it.

    You do realize OUR GOVERNMENT has created Ponzi Schemes that make Democrat Madoff's disgusting rip-off's look like a pauper?

    You do realize Enron failed and was allowed to fail? The free market picked up the pieces. Not so our government schemes. They get fed more and more taxpayer money instead of being phased out.

    Pollution: You want to see egregious and wanton degrading of the environment? Go to countries that are government run. It's like our ghettos... it's someone else's property, so who the **** cares? IF we make an error, we can correct it. That's another beauty of the free market.

    Insider trading: A fart in a hurricane. It will happen, and there is no guarantee these "tips" will pay off... but what is the alternative? The government controlling the show? It's miles more shady, ineffective and corrupt than the free market... just look at how ObamaKare was passed before our eyes. Slim Shady payoffs/buyoffs of votes with our cash to shove an unConstitutional "program" that we have consistently rejected (remember 1994) down our throats. And what do the busybodies do when we aren't looking? That's why limited government is best. It limits their power and control over us... the Slim Shady's like Obama and their intentions to "help" us. (Every time the government says they want to "help" us... insert screw instead.)

    Insurance: Again, if a company is known to short its clients, it runs the risk of losing business. People are free to choose in a free market. And with hundreds of insurance companies, this gets sorted out quickly... ESPECIALLY WITH THE INTERNET. Now, what do you propose? Government? And when you get rejected by them... what's your recourse? You're screwed. There is none. And that is the problem with ObamaKare and all socialist healthcare schemes. Ask the Euros and Kanuckistani's who are waiting to see a Doctor. Not getting treatment, but initial visits, and then wait again for the needed care.

    Do you realize the free market brings us:

    Cell phones that can hook us up online with a hand-held mini computer?
    The cost of the products and services have been drastically improved and prices drastically reduced so even kids have them? (I recall the old cell phone, with a battery you had to carry around like a briefcase and a cost of $10,000 for the phone only! That was only 25-years ago)

    Computers have gotten faster and cheaper and would be so even if everything was manufactured in the USA?

    You could apply this to almost anything. Sport equipment, automobiles... you name it. Now, if government was running the cell phone hardware industry, we'd still be carrying around batteries and the cost would be getting higher. Computers? You'd still be running a Commodore 64 with a tape deck on the side as they wouldn't have figured out or funded the transition to disks and then CD's. Today we're far beyond both; also 30-some years of rapid advancement.

    The free market works fantastically. There will be failures, but the scope of them will be miniscule compared to the failures government has foisted upon our education system, and other parts of our existence.

    Care to try and take on this "Free Market Monster" again?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 02-21-11 at 01:54 AM.
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    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    I am DOING NOTHING....I suggest you ask the source of the information, the MacIver Institute. Regardless, as apparently you have no intellectual honesty...the LAWMAKERS make law, when this legislation is passed, NO UNION CONTRACT OR BYLAW has the authority to override the PEOPLE, who pays the salaries. What part of BROKE do you not comprehend? 3 Billion dollar budget shortfall? The firing of over 6000 public employee if these concessions are not made?
    You're presenting it. If you can't defend it, then don't push it's ideas onto others. All I am asking is for you to defend the numbers. Can you prove that teachers there are receiving an average compensation of over $100k per year. I don't buy it. Though I would be happy if it were true.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Zimmer

    please read this

    Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390

    the radical right wing "source" you used for the teacher salary garbage has been discredited soundly.

    this is from OneWisconsinNow about the source for your 'information'



    No wonder some folks hate unions when they base it on right wing false information fueled by radical ideology.
    Thats what we expect from a Soros funded liberal group

    Soros directly financing Wisconsin liberal advocacy groups « Wisconsin Truth Project

  6. #266
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Care to try and take on this "Free Market Monster" again?

    .
    Besides the fact that almost everything you said is completely unsubstantiated? Prove anything you just said. You realize that we are far behind many countries technologically speaking and regarding infrastructure. It would be hard to say that America is on the forefront of anything right now.

    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You will have pockets, and these pockets become known, avoided and corrected... 100-times faster than government can.
    How? That sounds excellent, but it was just a bunch of words grouped together with no backing. Without government intervention like Sarbanes-Oxley, what would have been created in the private sector to avoid other Enron-like situations? A great example is the recent crash. There has been no regulation to fix derivatives trading. What has the free market done to guarantee us that our companies will not buy into falsley certified bad derivatives?

    The free market has its positives. I don't know why you think you are educated me on that. I am not anti-free market. I am, however, a realist. The free market is not perfect and without regulations, the free market will run amok. This seems to be contrary to most conservative talking points that claim that leaving the free market alone is the solution to everything. It is my opinion that leaving the free market alone is ignorant and will only lead to relapses.

    *Edit:

    Also, nice straw man on the pollution argument. What country was I defending again? Oh wait, I wasn't. I was simply saying that without government restrictions, the free market would pollute as much as necessary to make a profit. Do you disagree?
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-21-11 at 02:04 AM.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The Obama administration’s 2012 budget would save $1.1 trillion over the next 10 years by cutting programs to rein in a deficit that may reach a record $1.5 trillion this year, White House Budget Director Jacob Lew said."
    Obama’s 2012 Budget Saves $1.1 Trillion, Cuts Deficit, Lew Says - Businessweek

    Could you link me up to the GOP budget proposal during the last decade that cut spending by this much?

    Thanks!
    Problem is like most things Obama say this is a lie

    Obama

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Why do you think that these things don't exist anymore? Magic? It is the very liberal agenda you hate that caused it to stop and it is that exact agenda that keeps it from coming back. Unions are a big part of the reason that conditions have improved and with their removal you are only opening the door for them to come back.

    Again, how much are teachers making vs how much do you think they should be making?



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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Problem is like most things Obama say this is a lie

    Obama
    Thanks for a link to the "Conservative News Service". Honestly, they probably are more reliable than Fox News but I'll pass.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Thanks for a link to the "Conservative News Service". Honestly, they probably are more reliable than Fox News but I'll pass.
    It shows Soros is up to his usual BS and the libs are falling for it

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