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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if people want to form a union fine

    if the business wants to fire them-fine as well
    And if they want to fire the secretary for not sleeping with the boss, fine as well too?

    *Edit:

    At what point do laws regulating firing go to far? At the union stage? At the sexual harassment stage?
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-20-11 at 10:34 PM.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Are you in a job field that has unions? If not, what is your prerogative? Also, obviously these people like being a part of a union, which means thats what the people want. Why do you think you are better than they are or that your opinion is worth so much more?
    My post was partly in jest. However, no, I don't have a very good opinion of Unions as a whole.
    I've explained my reasons in other posts, not to mention I think they are now hurting a lot of states financially.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    And if they want to fire the secretary for not sleeping with the boss, fine as well too?

    *Edit:

    At what point do laws regulating firing go to far? At the union stage? At the sexual harassment stage?
    I believe the owner of a business has the right to fire whomever he wants for any reason he wants



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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Again, unions were the "free market" response to poor work conditions. So are you for government controlling business or the free market? I am confused. I thought you were conservative.
    That's true. But when the membership to a union is forced...it isn't exactly a free market any more...is it?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    And if they want to fire the secretary for not sleeping with the boss, fine as well too?

    *Edit:

    At what point do laws regulating firing go to far? At the union stage? At the sexual harassment stage?
    The unions aren't the only ones capable of protecting workers.
    Right here is plenty of protection for workers in Wisconsin.
    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0230.pdf
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    And if they want to fire the secretary for not sleeping with the boss, fine as well too?

    *Edit:

    At what point do laws regulating firing go to far? At the union stage? At the sexual harassment stage?
    Something you need to think about, Government employees are being paid through my taxes. In a way, I am paying a portion of every public workers income and benefits. The more they make, the more I have to pay. I have a say about that as I vote every year and try to elect individuals who understand how I feel.

    Those who sought to work for the government in the public sector, chose to do so. They were not forced into a job. The sought it out, interviewed, was offered a position and accepted it. They knew at the time that it was a public position and the people they had to service was the public, the taxpayers who are paying their salaries.

    The CEO or executive or even a clerk or salesperson at a private company are individuals that I am not required to support. If I spend my money there it is my choice. If I decide not to purchase at that company, I don't. No skin off my back. If I am treated poorly, I will not give them my money. I can't say the same when dealing with a government employee. If I don't like their service, I am still required to pay their salaries.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Something you need to think about, Government employees are being paid through my taxes. In a way, I am paying a portion of every public workers income and benefits. The more they make, the more I have to pay. I have a say about that as I vote every year and try to elect individuals who understand how I feel.

    Those who sought to work for the government in the public sector, chose to do so. They were not forced into a job. The sought it out, interviewed, was offered a position and accepted it. They knew at the time that it was a public position and the people they had to service was the public, the taxpayers who are paying their salaries.

    The CEO or executive or even a clerk or salesperson at a private company are individuals that I am not required to support. If I spend my money there it is my choice. If I decide not to purchase at that company, I don't. No skin off my back. If I am treated poorly, I will not give them my money. I can't say the same when dealing with a government employee. If I don't like their service, I am still required to pay their salaries.
    I totally understand, but you live in Houston, TX, right? Just like I live in Charlotte, NC, so this debate in Wiconsin is not really concerning me. It is not North Carolina's taxes nor Texas' taxes paying for it. As well, how much are teachers being paid that you object to the amount of control unions have?

    According to salary.com, in Wisconsin the median high school teacher makes between 42-62,000 a year. Up to 90% confidence interval the range is $32-70,000. The median grade school teacher makes $42-60,000 and up to 90% confidence interval is $33-70,000.

    Does this seem unreasonable? As far as administrators go... that I am less passionate about. I am not even aware of what they usually get paid.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I totally understand, but you live in Houston, TX, right? Just like I live in Charlotte, NC, so this debate in Wiconsin is not really concerning me. It is not North Carolina's taxes nor Texas' taxes paying for it. As well, how much are teachers being paid that you object to the amount of control unions have?

    According to salary.com, in Wisconsin the median high school teacher makes between 42-62,000 a year. Up to 90% confidence interval the range is $32-70,000. The median grade school teacher makes $42-60,000 and up to 90% confidence interval is $33-70,000.

    Does this seem unreasonable? As far as administrators go... that I am less passionate about. I am not even aware of what they usually get paid.
    You are right, what goes on in Wisconsin doesn't affect what I pay at all nor does it affect you or even many of the SEIU members that were bussed into the state to assist in the rally. It doesn't affect Obama either but he interjected himself into the debate. MY post could have easily been made by someone in Wisconsin or any other state with public unions. No one that I know is against civil service workers. We are against their unions that force the state to pay higher benefits and wages than the same job will require in the private sector.

    One other VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

    Government departments SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN UNIONIZED as it is definitely a strong conflict of interest between the government entity, the taxpayer and the union.

    Elected officials who negotiate with unions are also supported by those unions through campaign donations. How likely would an elected official go against the people that helped put him in office and expect them to help him get re-elected?

    The more the elected official needs the unions help in staying in office, the more he would bend to the Union demands leaving the tax payer as the victim.

    It should be disallowed.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Yeah! Damn unions. How dare you raise worker's compensation, make sure conditions are safe, and promote an overall better work environment!?!?

    http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/briefi.../143/bp143.pdf


    So evil! They must be destroyed!
    So we are to assume that you do not agree with the biggest progressive of the 20th Century, FDR?

    Quote -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, "....Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations...the very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for officials...to bind the employer...the employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives....

    "Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... the obligation is paramount ...a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent...to prevent...obstruct...Government, such action, looking toward paralysis of government is unthinkable and intolerable." EXCEPT in WISCONSIN where these CIVIL SERVANTS ignore their oath to both the State and Federal Constitution to serve and defend the publics best interest, instead, serve the UNION BOSSES and their CONSTITUTION.

    Just how does that work? Who is more important, THE PEOPLE...or the UNION HIERARCHY? Are you suggesting the UNION CONSTITUTION and BI-LAWS are paramount to the Legislation that is being passed by the PEOPLES REPRESENTATIVE who have democratically assumed office under the mandate of fiscal responsibility? Hardly...it is the PEOPLE who entered into an agreement to collectively bargain with these unions and grant them any rights to collectively assemble in the first place while under contract to the Government. They can and are rescinding that law and drafting a new one. EAT CAKE. This is a Representative Republic, not a social totalitarian communist state, the PEOPLE make the rules...not the UNIONS nor their thugs.

    This administration has already sent legions of BROWN SHIRT propaganda artists into that area. By what right does the federal government have assume the authority to interfere with a state governments and their acts of legislations...before they are voted upon?
    Last edited by Walter; 02-20-11 at 11:53 PM.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    So we are to assume that you do not agree with the biggest progressive of the 20th Century, FDR?

    Quote -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, "....Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations...the very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for officials...to bind the employer...the employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives....

    "Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... the obligation is paramount ...a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent...to prevent...obstruct...Government, such action, looking toward paralysis of government is unthinkable and intolerable." EXCEPT in WISCONSIN where these CIVIL SERVANTS ignore their oath to both the State and Federal Constitution to serve and defend the publics best interest, instead, serve the UNION BOSSES and their CONSTITUTION.

    Just how does that work? Who is more important, THE PEOPLE...or the UNION HIERARCHY? Are you suggesting the UNION CONSTITUTION and BI-LAWS are paramount to the Legislation that is being passed by the PEOPLES REPRESENTATIVE who have democratically assumed office under the mandate of fiscal responsibility? Hardly...it is the PEOPLE who entered into an agreement to collectively bargain with these unions and grant them any rights to collectively assemble in the first place while under contract to the Government. They can and are rescinding that law and drafting a new one. EAT CAKE. This is a Representative Republic, not a social totalitarian communist state, the PEOPLE make the rules...not the UNIONS nor their thugs.

    This administration has already sent legions of BROWN SHIRT propaganda artists into that area. By what right does the federal government have assume the authority to interfere with a state governments and their acts of legislations...before they are voted upon?
    I do like FDR. He said and did a lot of great things. I think I have shown myself to be open to discussion and compromise. Often I ask questions so that I can get a feel for what the overall problem is. For instance, with the WI strikes, I understand why those are mad about the possibility of fake doctors notes and not going to work. What I don't understand is the hatred of the union. I don't understand what exactly these teachers are getting that is causing such an issue.

    Also, this isn't just about the public sector. The same people on these boards who are calling these teachers "slobs" (direct quote) are the same ones who want to knock out all unions - not just those in the public sector. So while your FDR quote is intriguing and I appreciate you bringing up his viewpoint, it isn't entirely relevant.

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