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Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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whysoserious;1059304949]How do you figure? It's a rigged game just like at the casino. At some point, as the squeeze gets tighter and tighter, just like at every other point in history, something has to give and this is usually when revolutions begin. Our system is set up so that money trickles uphill, so what else would you expect to happen?
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I really feel sorry for you if that is the attitude you have. You only have yourself to blame if you don't join those evil rich people that you choose to hate. I suggest that you stop blaming someone else for poor choices you made and continue to make. You are the one preventing you from becoming rich, it is attitude, effort, risk taking. How did someone getting rich hurt you or your family? I am product of an upper lower income household, worked my way through college, got a good job, worked for 35 years and retired at 57. If I can do what I did so can anyone else but not with your attitude.

There is room for some to join, but for ordinary people, as more people hit it big and then keep the money for family legacies, the less money there is to go around in the real world. If everyone was like Bill Gates and planned to donate most of the money back to charity when they died... yes, the system would work much better.
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What people do with their money is their business and the fact remains when the rich do better so do charities. I was an "ordinary" folk that made it. I worked hard and never blamed someone else when I made a mistake. I learned from those mistakes and benefited from those mistakes. You always seem to blame someone else. That is your first mistake. I don't care how much someone else makes but you on the other hand post complaints all the time. I don't care what someone else pays in taxes but instead care more about how those tax dollars are spent. You on the other hand worry more about what others pay and not where the money goes.

Today's Democratic Party loves people like you. They will keep you dependent for the rest of your life and the best you can do is blame someone else.
 
Catawba said:
Census: Income gap between rich and poor got wider in 2009

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The income gap between the richest and poorest Americans grew last year to its widest amount on record as young adults and children in particular struggled to stay afloat in the recession.

The top-earning 20% of Americans — those making more than $100,000 each year — received 49.4% of all income generated in the U.S., compared with the 3.4% earned by those below the poverty line, according to newly released Census figures. That ratio of 14.5-to-1 was an increase from 13.6 in 2008 and nearly double a low of 7.69 in 1968.


Census: Income gap between rich and poor got wider in 2009 - USATODAY.com
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So what? How does that hurt you or your family?
 
Conservative said:
I really feel sorry for you if that is the attitude you have. You only have yourself to blame if you don't join those evil rich people that you choose to hate. I suggest that you stop blaming someone else for poor choices you made and continue to make. You are the one preventing you from becoming rich, it is attitude, effort, risk taking. How did someone getting rich hurt you or your family? I am product of an upper lower income household, worked my way through college, got a good job, worked for 35 years and retired at 57. If I can do what I did so can anyone else but not with your attitude.




What people do with their money is their business and the fact remains when the rich do better so do charities. I was an "ordinary" folk that made it. I worked hard and never blamed someone else when I made a mistake. I learned from those mistakes and benefited from those mistakes. You always seem to blame someone else. That is your first mistake. I don't care how much someone else makes but you on the other hand post complaints all the time. I don't care what someone else pays in taxes but instead care more about how those tax dollars are spent. You on the other hand worry more about what others pay and not where the money goes.

Today's Democratic Party loves people like you. They will keep you dependent for the rest of your life and the best you can do is blame someone else.
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It's sad that you feel that way. Unfortunately, you can't argue with math, that's all this subject we are talking about is. We are talking about unethical trading, compounded interest, annuities, tax codes, special interest, and power. I don't hate the rich and I have no contempt for them. My question for you is:

Why do you feel like you need to stick up for them so much? How many supporters does Goliath need? Between conservatives and unlimited campaign donations from corporations, you're about to find out how tight the squeeze can go.
 
Conservative said:
So what? How does that hurt you or your family?
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It's not personalized that way, it's just the ideology of social justice. That someone who busts ass and makes 20 million dollars isn't fair to those who bust ass and do not make 20 million dollars. Therefore, it must be equalized in some sense of generic "fairness". I don't believe in such a thing, and that we live up to our destiny the best we can - some are lucky, some are determined and some are losers in life - and that's just the way it is. There is no "fair" and there is no equalization needed.
 
whysoserious said:
It's sad that you feel that way. Unfortunately, you can't argue with math, that's all this subject we are talking about is. We are talking about unethical trading, compounded interest, annuities, tax codes, special interest, and power. I don't hate the rich and I have no contempt for them. My question for you is:

Why do you feel like you need to stick up for them so much? How many supporters does Goliath need? Between conservatives and unlimited campaign donations from corporations, you're about to find out how tight the squeeze can go.
Click to expand...

Like with far too many you choose to focus on the exception vs. the rule. there are laws against unethical trading, what is wrong with compounding interest, annuities, the tax codes?

I stick up for anyone earning money legally as that is the economic system that made this country great. Why are you so concerned about what someone else legally earns?

Do you know who got the lion's share of campaign contributions from Wall Street and the banking business in the last election? I suggest you stop buying what you are told and do better research.

I am one of the few here that doesn't care how much you make or pay in taxes. Those you support do care. You don't see a problem with that?
 
Catawba said:
Census: Income gap between rich and poor got wider in 2009

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The income gap between the richest and poorest Americans grew last year to its widest amount on record as young adults and children in particular struggled to stay afloat in the recession.

The top-earning 20% of Americans — those making more than $100,000 each year — received 49.4% of all income generated in the U.S., compared with the 3.4% earned by those below the poverty line, according to newly released Census figures. That ratio of 14.5-to-1 was an increase from 13.6 in 2008 and nearly double a low of 7.69 in 1968.


Census: Income gap between rich and poor got wider in 2009 - USATODAY.com
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One of the reasons that the wingers are going after the Unions that represent the teachers, firefighters, or police. Not much there that they can offshore…but they sure will try to Wackenhut the jobs.
 
Ockham said:
It's not personalized that way, it's just the ideology of social justice. That someone who busts ass and makes 20 million dollars isn't fair to those who bust ass and do not make 20 million dollars. Therefore, it must be equalized in some sense of generic "fairness". I don't believe in such a thing, and that we live up to our destiny the best we can - some are lucky, some are determined and some are losers in life - and that's just the way it is. There is no "fair" and there is no equalization needed.
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Unfortunately the left will always kill the "golden goose" as those evil rich people pay a large percentage of their income to charities but that flies in the face of the dependent class that today's Democrats want to create. If someone gives money to charities the govt. doesn't control it and for liberals that is bad.
 
donc said:
One of the reasons that the wingers are going after the Unions that represent the teachers, firefighters, or police. Not much there that they can offshore…but they sure will try to Wackenhut the jobs.
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Right, taxpayers funding public unions that use their dues to fund campaign ads that keep politicians in power that continue to bilk the taxpayer for higher union benefits. It is easy for someone like you who doesn't live in Wisconsin to have no problem with the taxes the people of Wisconsin pay to fund these public unions. You seem to do that a lot, get involved in causes that costs someone else, not you, personal income.
 
whysoserious said:
There is room for some to join, but for ordinary people, as more people hit it big and then keep the money for family legacies, the less money there is to go around in the real world. If everyone was like Bill Gates and planned to donate most of the money back to charity when they died... yes, the system would work much better.
Click to expand...

That's fiction, sorry.

China and India are some of the largst emerging markets in human history, and you're free to go for a piece of that pie, or make more pie, RIGHT NOW. And you COMPLAIN that it's all drying up!? It's like complaining no one as cell phones, as cell phones are ringing and being answered all around you as you claim it.

Think about it carefully. Who is preventing you from going out and starting a business right now? You are. But worse, you're spreading false propoganda that is essentially suggesting that people can't go out and compete in the free market, and that the market is fixed, and that it's shrinking. Its' awful. Not starting a business...that's not awful, that's a life choice. Preaching to others the futility of it? Irresponsible.

Foreign companies nearly kill to compete in our booming U.S. market. You somehow see it as an albatros. Please help me understand, how can you hold that belief in the face of a starkly opposite reality?

If you don't go get a piece of the China pie (directly or indrectly), guess what, a billion other souls in the world who don't have it 10% as good as you do, are up for it.

But it's in part our fault anyway..we are supposed to be preparing them for the market. Why do you think most americans emerging from our education system (public and private) are so unprepared for participation in a free market (as evidenced on this forum and in general anywhere you look)?
 
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Ockham said:
It's not personalized that way, it's just the ideology of social justice. That someone who busts ass and makes 20 million dollars isn't fair to those who bust ass and do not make 20 million dollars. Therefore, it must be equalized in some sense of generic "fairness". I don't believe in such a thing, and that we live up to our destiny the best we can - some are lucky, some are determined and some are losers in life - and that's just the way it is. There is no "fair" and there is no equalization needed.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is discussing 20 million dollars. That's a drop in the pool.

Conservative said:
Like with far too many you choose to focus on the exception vs. the rule. there are laws against unethical trading, what is wrong with compounding interest, annuities, the tax codes?

I stick up for anyone earning money legally as that is the economic system that made this country great. Why are you so concerned about what someone else legally earns?

Do you know who got the lion's share of campaign contributions from Wall Street and the banking business in the last election? I suggest you stop buying what you are told and do better research.

I am one of the few here that doesn't care how much you make or pay in taxes. Those you support do care. You don't see a problem with that?
Click to expand...

No it isn't. Unethical trading goes on every day. They have done nothing to ban the trading of packaged derivatives. If you had any idea of the house advantage these people have over every other trader you'd find it to be extremely unethical.

There is nothing wrong with interest earned, annuities, perpituities, stock trading, derivatives, short selling, etc. It's all of them combined that make it impossible for money to "trickle down", and in fact cause the opposite to happen.

As far as who got the "lions share of...", what does it matter? We can go tit for tat on democrats vs republicans, who is more unethical this, who is more right on that. It's not even on topic. Who got more money? They person they thought was going to win and therefore the person they were most interested in pushing their ideas on.
 
Mach said:
That's fiction, sorry.

China and India are some of the largst emerging markets in human history, and you're free to go for a piece of that pie, or make more pie, RIGHT NOW. And you COMPLAIN that it's all drying up!? It's like complaining no one as cell phones, as cell phones are ringing and being answered all around you as you claim it.

Think about it carefully. Who is preventing you from going out and starting a business right now? You are. But worse, you're spreading false propoganda that is essentially suggesting that people can't go out and compete in the free market, and that the market is fixed, and that it's shrinking. Its' awful. Not starting a business...that's not awful, that's a life choice. Preaching to others the futility of it? Irresponsible.

Foreign companies nearly kill to compete in our booming U.S. market. You somehow see it as an albatros. Please help me understand, how can you hold that belief in the face of a starkly opposite reality?

If you don't go get a piece of the China pie (directly or indrectly), guess what, a billion other souls in the world who don't have it 10% as good as you do, are up for it.

But it's in part our fault anyway..we are supposed to be preparing them for the market. Why do you think most americans emerging from our education system (public and private) are so unprepared for participation in a free market (as evidenced on this forum and in general anywhere you look)?
Click to expand...

Ok, let me see if you can grab this idea:

The more wealth controlled by tiny amounts of people, the less wealth for the rest of the people. It's not a very hard concept to grasp. What is stopping people from starting a business? I don't know, lack of education, lack of funds, needing to finance tens of thousands of dollars to go to college (if they can get past the terrible education they received in public school), and coming out with mountains of debt. Then these people need to go out and buy a mortgage, while currently paying the the other mortgage they have - borrowed college tuition payments on interest. Yes, the juice is running on those.

And on top of that you want people to borrow $400,000 to start a business in an economy that is struggling because of the very people you are trying to protect? You want people to go further into debt because you don't want to upset the people whose unethical packing/trading of derivatives, golden parachutes, bonuses, and poor management abilities caused the crash?

What about when it happens again?
 
whysoserious said:
I don't think anyone is discussing 20 million dollars. That's a drop in the pool.
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It could be 20 thousand, 20 million, 20 billion, 20 trillion... I want people to have the ability to make as much money as they can, without having to worry about the government or individuals seeking "social justice" and penalize them for making that money or conversely, rewarding them for making so little.
 
Why don't you address the points I raised?

whysoserious said:
Why do people always put words into my mouth? I never hated on anyone being rich.
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I never claimed you were hating on anyone, you're doing the same to me.
Look at what you wrote:

How is having a small percentage of rich people controlling most of the wealth while most are poor and uneducated good for society? Wealth breeds more wealth, some sort of market barrier is put into place, these people will only continue to get richer. What is positive about that?
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So yes, you clearly imply you do NOT believe it's a "positive" thing for:
a small percentage of people having the highest wealth
wealth breeding more wealth, the rich getting richer

Wealth, and wealth breeding wealth according to your post = not positive (see below)

And the one part you slipped in, about "while the most are poor and uneducated", I specifically asked you what country you believe this is the case in.
If the U.S., you'll lose the argument.
If not the U.S., it's irrelevant to this debate.

So which is it? You clearly think SOMETHING isn't positive. And I'm pretty sure "not positive" can be synonymous with "bad" for the discussion. So no one put words in your mouth except you. I'm sure you can clear this all up though.
 
whysoserious said:
Ok, let me see if you can grab this idea:

The more wealth controlled by tiny amounts of people, the less wealth for the rest of the people. It's not a very hard concept to grasp. What is stopping people from starting a business? I don't know, lack of education, lack of funds, needing to finance tens of thousands of dollars to go to college (if they can get past the terrible education they received in public school), and coming out with mountains of debt. Then these people need to go out and buy a mortgage, while currently paying the the other mortgage they have - borrowed college tuition payments on interest. Yes, the juice is running on those.

And on top of that you want people to borrow $400,000 to start a business in an economy that is struggling because of the very people you are trying to protect? You want people to go further into debt because you don't want to upset the people whose unethical packing/trading of derivatives, golden parachutes, bonuses, and poor management abilities caused the crash?

What about when it happens again?
Click to expand...

Please tell me this is an act and you are doing this for attention? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? How can people get a poor education in public schools when most of them are funded by both state and Federal Dollars that rank at the top of the world?
 
Ockham said:
It could be 20 thousand, 20 million, 20 billion, 20 trillion... I want people to have the ability to make as much money as they can, without having to worry about the government or individuals seeking "social justice" and penalize them for making that money or conversely, rewarding them for making so little.
Click to expand...

Great, and how will you accomplish that with a less and less educated workforce that is unhealthy because of poor living conditions and unaffordable medical care, and having to support more and more people on welfare?

Wouldn't it make more sense to pay people a living wage, provide affordable health care and education so they are a positive force for the economy rather than a drag on it?
 
Conservative said:
Please tell me this is an act and you are doing this for attention? Where does personal responsibility lie in your world? How can people get a poor education in public schools when most of them are funded by both state and Federal Dollars that rank at the top of the world?
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Dude, funding doesn't mean squat. I can more $2 million into a school and people can still come out stupid.

Also, taking into account what whysoserious said, Republicans Wall Street should have been allowed to fail. Doesn't saving them go against their notion of personal responsibility?
 
whysoserious said:
How do you figure? It's a rigged game just like at the casino. At some point, as the squeeze gets tighter and tighter, just like at every other point in history, something has to give and this is usually when revolutions begin. Our system is set up so that money trickles uphill, so what else would you expect to happen?

There is room for some to join, but for ordinary people, as more people hit it big and then keep the money for family legacies, the less money there is to go around in the real world. If everyone was like Bill Gates and planned to donate most of the money back to charity when they died... yes, the system would work much better.
Click to expand...

People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.
 
Barbbtx said:
People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.
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Guess what? The "pies" that the rich make, while they create jobs, also increase the amount of wealth they have, thus increasing their share of the pie.
 
Nope, they can earn what they need.

IF they want to change their circumstances then they can do so.

In this case, 2/3 of Wisconsin kidds cannot read well...despite spending 10,700 per student, per year.

Sorry.

Catawba said:
Great, and how will you accomplish that with a less and less educated workforce that is unhealthy because of poor living conditions and unaffordable medical care, and having to support more and more people on welfare?

Wouldn't it make more sense to pay people a living wage, provide affordable health care and education so they are a positive force for the economy rather than a drag on it?
Click to expand...
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Dude, funding doesn't mean squat. I can more $2 million into a school and people can still come out stupid.

Also, taking into account what whysoserious said, Republicans Wall Street should have been allowed to fail. Doesn't saving them go against their notion of personal responsibility?
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Exactly, now thanks for supporting Governor Walker. As for Wall Street, better find out where the campaign contributions went in 2008. Republicans are tied to Wall Street because the liberal elites realize that people like whysoserious will buy the rhetoric and to a liberal rhetoric trumps substance. Fact is Obama received some of the biggest contributions from Wall Street including Goldman Sachs.
 
Conservative said:
Exactly, now thanks for supporting Governor Walker. As for Wall Street, better find out where the campaign contributions went in 2008. Republicans are tied to Wall Street because the liberal elites realize that people like whysoserious will buy the rhetoric and to a liberal rhetoric trumps substance. Fact is Obama received some of the biggest contributions from Wall Street including Goldman Sachs.
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Both parties are controlled by corporations.

Also I do not support Walker, what he is doing is an attack on labor.
 
Barbbtx said:
People like Bill Gates are good for society but not because he's going to give all his money to charity. Stossel talks about him in this video.
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Fox news is your credible source??? LOL!
 
Amazed said:
Nope, they can earn what they need.
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How?

And how much do you feel teachers, firefighters and policemen are overpaid?
 
Catawba said:
Great, and how will you accomplish that with a less and less educated workforce that is unhealthy because of poor living conditions and unaffordable medical care, and having to support more and more people on welfare?
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You equate social justice and forced economic equality incorrectly. We don't have those things now, and have never had them and those things are accomplished all the time.

Catawba said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to pay people a living wage, provide affordable health care and education so they are a positive force for the economy rather than a drag on it?
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We already have a fair living wage and affordable health care and education, though I would argue we overpay by at least 50% on education.
 
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