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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Amazing! When public employee workers organize, they call it a rightful protest. When inner-city parents and their affiliates do it, it's called "slash-and-burn" organizing. There's not a shred of evidence that Iparents or the organizations that they're apart of are resorting to intimidation of any kind. An article in the LA Times (which by the way, is quite confusing in its delivery of information) is not substantial proof to document such "harassment."
    It looks to me these parents are grasping for straws, they vote on something they know little about. They listen to the sales pitch from charter school operators or should I say snake oil salesman.

    The best way to make the schools better is by increasing the economic status of the people who are involved. The parents need to be involved in their children's education and raising their economic status will in time advance the education of the children.


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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Read the rest, as I try to explain the statement. We have to decide if we want public schools to be as restrictive.
    You're back-tracking. I pointed out three very important differences (small class sizes, intolerance of bad behavior and greater parental involvement) between public and private schools. You specifically said that these differences may not be particularly desirable. And basically, the second difference (intolerance of bad behavior) is the only difference which is based on restriction, and you support such restriction. You keep bringing up private schools as restrictive without every backing it up.

    Because of freedom and money. Smaller classrooms cost. You have to have more teachers, maybe more schools, and it costs.
    And what is your point? I know they cost more, but what is your point? I don't believe you to be one who is against higher funding for education. This is where we may agree. I support greater funding for education if we can ensure there's an element of choice in the system. If that means increasing the general taxpayer funding for education, then so be it. If parents can choose, I'm all for it.

    We ahv eparents that will never really care. Do we abandon the children? It's an option. But we do have to decide.
    No, we do not abandon the children. I think I've mentioned to you before that if the parent is unwilling to make a decision, the child may be given the arbitrary power to choose their own learning institution.

    And it isn't schools that perfomr poorly, it's the population of students that perfom poorly.
    Another wrong statement. We can take two samples of student populations, with nearly identical backgrounds and even of the same neighborhood, and come up with incredibly different performance rates. The Compton story has made such a comparison with students of other schools. We can also find independent schools in the same inner-city neighborhood who are doing far better than the public schools. The children come from virtually the same exact background and yet they're doing better in the private school. Again, your statements sound like you're just absolving all public schools of any accountability.

    It is quite possible the instruction is sound, the effort great, and the population lacking. As no one has really assessed the reasons why a population scored poorly, you're making a leap in assuming it to be the school's failing.
    When the comparisons and studies indicate that such schools are failing, why deny it? When teachers allow disruptive students to remain disruptive (in other words, they have no control over the classroom), they're exhibiting signs of a bad teacher. When they come to class with a magazine and give the kids busy work, they're bad teachers. When administrators lose money over ridiculous programs and wasteful spending, they're exhibiting signs of bad administrators. When you put the two together, you have a failing school.

    Again, cost is but one way to discriminate.
    I've already responded to the cost discrimination of private schools. Respond to my point rather than just regurgitate what you've already said. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time debating a broken record player.

    Some discriminate based on ability or prepardness.
    Where is your evidence that the majority or even a significant portion of private schools do just that. Also, define "preparedness."

    Others on family or connections.
    That's a first. Evidence please.

    Thepoint is they can be choosey.
    Yes, they can, and so can parents. The major difference is diversity. There's a wide range of schools in the private sector that offer different things to different students. The point is that students, given enough time and enough freedom, will be able to find the school that suits their learning pursuits the best.

    And keep in mind different countries have a different social outlook on education. In otherwords, their parents, their peers, everythign aropund them approaches education differently than here.
    Do you realize that you're making the claim that our students and our parents are culturally inferior (or socially inferior if you prefer) as opposed to European students and parents?

    You can't do a direct comparison.
    Why not? They've already made such a direct comparison. You take the exact same math or science questions (or you could even issue a subjective test on civics, history and reading/writing) and you issue them to two samples of students, one from the states and one from a European class. Both have to be relatively the same in regards to performance relative to their own country. I've seen one such study that compared the test results of one classroom from one of the best performing schools in New Jersey versus the test results of one classroom from one of the best performing schools in a province of Denmark. The test questions were identical. Guess who scored higher? There are numerous such studies comparing relatively similar classrooms in the U.S. to those in Japan, Korea, and other parts of Europe. There is no question that we, as a nation, are lagging far behind in math and science. I imagine it is true for the soft sciences as well, given that foreigners know more about our own history than we do.

    Abstain? I thought we were talking about disruptive students?
    Yes, you said you support the repeal of truancy laws and if disruptive students remain disruptive, they ought to be permanently removed. The repeal of truancy laws naturally means that parents and students have a right to refrain from education, altogether.

    And it isn't resort. Public by definition means public. Private by definition means private. It seems very simple to me.
    Yes, it is quite simple. The terms 'freedom to choose' and 'open enrollment' are quite simple as well.

    Because private isn't really better than public. It is often actually more expensive.
    Wrong. Public schools pay an average of 12K per pupil per year. Private schools pay a fraction of the cost and they perform better.

    And if you change those rules, you make private public, and at the end of the day, we've only made one the other and fixed or improved nothing. Pasisng the problem on doesn't fix it.
    I don't think that is a far assessment of my proposal. If you don't wish to change the rules and deregulate public education, then be prepared to tolerate overcrowded classrooms and sub-par education standards.

    Not shifting, never shifting, but recognizing the limitations of the teachers, and how the focus is too narrao when it is only on the teacher, and therefore, ineffective.
    Is the teacher ever wrong or incompetent, in your opinion? Provide a scenario, if you don't mind.

    And no, I wouldn't make it a friend, if that is what you mean by closest. Someone who knows something about your subject and job would be valid.
    Oh, I understand. Status-quo once again. Currently, a colleague of the same department (whom therefore has a substantial relationship with the evaluated teacher) is doing the evaluation. You wish to change...nothing?

    Why? Different country with diferent student populations and social views of education.
    You actually think American parents, as a whole, care less about education? Again, comparisons of remarkably similar student populations have already been considered. Our students are no dumber than the European students. We're all human, after all.

    I don't know near enough about thier situations. It isn't like different countries compare directly, or that we really want them to.
    Could you clarify the last part of this statement?

    Again, it isn't the school, as if it were a person, it is the population that goes there and all the factors involved with the school.
    I'm left with the opinion, the system is fine, the people are stupid.

    Tests that require thought and ability to use all you've learned. The worst type of tests are standaized bubble tests. They tell us very little. A good test takes time, and isn't gradable in a machine.
    I agree that bubble tests are not the best to determine the performance of learning. But the really good tests are ones based on math and the hard sciences. In those fields, there is no subjective grading. I'm personally a history major and I know first-hand that essays based on historical analysis are graded entirely on the subjective views and standards of each individual professor.

    Possible? I think most of us believe anything is possible, but that doesn't make it likely. We have to look at the factors. A non caring parent isn't like to what is needed to move.
    Are you REALLY a teacher? I hope the subject you teach is not English, no offense intended.

    Nor is there any evidence any statistacly significant number of students would benefit. It is more likely for those who benefit, others will be hurt.
    Again, pure speculation without regard to any evidence. Those who leave the public schools for an alternative education benefit. And those who remain are at least left with a smaller class size and a greater teacher-student ratio. It also improves the less-than-adequate public school by forcing them to account for their methods and their funding. They have to. Best Buy doesn't continue to exist and expand because they waste money and they don't provide adequate service. In the marketplace, it's quite the opposite.

    A better approach seem to me to try and improve public educations (which isn't really completely broke btw).
    I never said it was broke, I said we've doubled the amount spent per pupil over the past twenty years (adjusted for inflation) while improvement rates have flat lined. And apparently, your only solution to improve public education is to repeal truancy laws. That is not enough, in my opinion. But I do agree with such an opinion.



    As the poll showed, most believe thier school is doing well. It's others who are not. Kind of like when people hear a lot of negative talk and they just accpet that it is negative. Few actually study or look into any of this, nor would I expect most to.
    You are patronizing the parents. The parents who care know how well their school is performing. They look at the homework and the type of material and/or curriculum served at the school and they know, based on a rough estimate from their own past and background, whether or not such material is adequate for their children.

    Whether most would or not is a question mark. A number, whatever the number is, will simple see a maybe and try it. Others wil mistakenly think they are getting something they aren't. Others won't be able to move as a child can't do it on their own, and will be left with what is left.
    Again, PURE speculation. None of which is enough to deny the right of parents and children to choose the education of their choice.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    It looks to me these parents are grasping for straws, they vote on something they know little about. They listen to the sales pitch from charter school operators or should I say snake oil salesman.
    And your evidence, other than the heresy you read from a single article? It looks to me as if you're just patronizing the parents and doing whatever you can to defend the failing system as it currently stands.

    The best way to make the schools better is by increasing the economic status of the people who are involved.
    Education is one of the driving forces behind increasing the performance of the economy. You have to start at the education before you can start at improving the economy status of those involved. One way to improve the education is to offer free choice and open enrollment. But I guess you believe the better education should only be reserved for the wealthier classes.

    The parents need to be involved in their children's education and raising their economic status will in time advance the education of the children.
    I know, for a 100% fact, that you have nothing to offer in terms of changing parent's behavior and instilling a sense of responsibility in such parents. There is literally nothing that can be done, on a national governmental scale, that can instill responsibility in those who are not responsible. Irresponsible parents will continue not caring about their children's education regardless of any changes to the system or no changes at all. If anything, my proposal that the children be given arbitrary power to choose their own learning institutions would improve the situation of children living in homes with irresponsible parents. But even then, I'm not so optimistic because in those cases, we would be relying on the child to teach himself/herself responsibility and to be able to make the right decisions on his/her own despite the negative influences at home. But at least the option would be available to the child if the parent was unwilling or unable to make a decision.

    However, for the poor parents that actually do care about their child's future, my option would provide an positive alternative whereas your tolerance of the status-quo would force all poor parents to remain in the school dictated by their zip code. Education should never be dictated and should always remain a free choice to the individual(s).

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And your evidence, other than the heresy you read from a single article? It looks to me as if you're just patronizing the parents and doing whatever you can to defend the failing system as it currently stands.



    Education is one of the driving forces behind increasing the performance of the economy. You have to start at the education before you can start at improving the economy status of those involved. One way to improve the education is to offer free choice and open enrollment. But I guess you believe the better education should only be reserved for the wealthier classes.



    I know, for a 100% fact, that you have nothing to offer in terms of changing parent's behavior and instilling a sense of responsibility in such parents. There is literally nothing that can be done, on a national governmental scale, that can instill responsibility in those who are not responsible. Irresponsible parents will continue not caring about their children's education regardless of any changes to the system or no changes at all. If anything, my proposal that the children be given arbitrary power to choose their own learning institutions would improve the situation of children living in homes with irresponsible parents. But even then, I'm not so optimistic because in those cases, we would be relying on the child to teach himself/herself responsibility and to be able to make the right decisions on his/her own despite the negative influences at home. But at least the option would be available to the child if the parent was unwilling or unable to make a decision.

    However, for the poor parents that actually do care about their child's future, my option would provide an positive alternative whereas your tolerance of the status-quo would force all poor parents to remain in the school dictated by their zip code. Education should never be dictated and should always remain a free choice to the individual(s).
    I think we may have drifted a little off topic, although I do think we need a debate centered on the educational system we have that is not performing very well. The topic of this thread is “Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions”

    I think it could be better entitled Walker takes a broad swipe at unions, Make that the republicans and tea partiers want to break the back of the unions, all unions and this is just the first swing, once they remove collective bargaining from the public employee unions they will have effectively delivered the death blow not only to the public unions but to all unions. The Republicans and the Tea Baggers have a bigger target then the public unions they are attempting to destroy the democratic party and the middle class nothing less.

    We have seen the results of 8 years of a Republican President, they must have been good, make that great why else would we have elected more of them in the mid terms to represent us?

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You're back-tracking. I pointed out three very important differences (small class sizes, intolerance of bad behavior and greater parental involvement) between public and private schools. You specifically said that these differences may not be particularly desirable. And basically, the second difference (intolerance of bad behavior) is the only difference which is based on restriction, and you support such restriction. You keep bringing up private schools as restrictive without every backing it up.
    No, I think you're missing the point. I used the word may, because by limiting they may leave out, remove, not provide for a needed education. Doing so for a discpline problem is one thing. Doing so to keep class size down another. Better to move the public school to smaller classrooms while keeping enough rooms and teachers available to cover all the need.



    And what is your point? I know they cost more, but what is your point? I don't believe you to be one who is against higher funding for education. This is where we may agree. I support greater funding for education if we can ensure there's an element of choice in the system. If that means increasing the general taxpayer funding for education, then so be it. If parents can choose, I'm all for it.
    I support greater funding. But public funds go to public opperations, not private ones. If you fund public schools and allow the same advatages, you'll get the same results, maybe better. There is nothing different in the teaching of private schools. The choice is actually a false one.


    No, we do not abandon the children. I think I've mentioned to you before that if the parent is unwilling to make a decision, the child may be given the arbitrary power to choose their own learning institution.
    Do you really believe this?


    Another wrong statement. We can take two samples of student populations, with nearly identical backgrounds and even of the same neighborhood, and come up with incredibly different performance rates. The Compton story has made such a comparison with students of other schools. We can also find independent schools in the same inner-city neighborhood who are doing far better than the public schools. The children come from virtually the same exact background and yet they're doing better in the private school. Again, your statements sound like you're just absolving all public schools of any accountability.
    No, you can't. They don't have the same students under the same conditions. It is more than background. The private school selects from that background, controls the class size. Has a different set of parents. They are not comparable or alike. It is a superficial comparison that doesn't dig deep enough to recognize the real differences.

    When the comparisons and studies indicate that such schools are failing, why deny it? When teachers allow disruptive students to remain disruptive (in other words, they have no control over the classroom), they're exhibiting signs of a bad teacher. When they come to class with a magazine and give the kids busy work, they're bad teachers. When administrators lose money over ridiculous programs and wasteful spending, they're exhibiting signs of bad administrators. When you put the two together, you have a failing school.
    You're going to have be more specific. I think you have a overgeneralized view of the situation.




    I've already responded to the cost discrimination of private schools. Respond to my point rather than just regurgitate what you've already said. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time debating a broken record player.
    You do know a second sentence follows this one. I think your a bright fellow, but think sometimes we break things up so much we miss what is being said. The sentence is a transitional sentence, noting your complaint, and leading your to the response.

    Sorry. I'll have to finish later.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Where is your evidence that the majority or even a significant portion of private schools do just that. Also, define "preparedness."
    I thought I gave you some of this before:

    Private schools are not obligated by any laws regarding admission. Therefore, private school admission is competitive.

    Public School vs. Private School - Public School Review

    Public Schools Outperform Private Schools in Math Instruction

    Private vs. Public: The Great Debate | Education.com


    Yes, they can, and so can parents. The major difference is diversity. There's a wide range of schools in the private sector that offer different things to different students. The point is that students, given enough time and enough freedom, will be able to find the school that suits their learning pursuits the best.
    No, the major difference is selectivity.

    Do you realize that you're making the claim that our students and our parents are culturally inferior (or socially inferior if you prefer) as opposed to European students and parents?
    I'm doing nothing of the kind.


    Why not? They've already made such a direct comparison. You take the exact same math or science questions (or you could even issue a subjective test on civics, history and reading/writing) and you issue them to two samples of students, one from the states and one from a European class. Both have to be relatively the same in regards to performance relative to their own country. I've seen one such study that compared the test results of one classroom from one of the best performing schools in New Jersey versus the test results of one classroom from one of the best performing schools in a province of Denmark. The test questions were identical. Guess who scored higher? There are numerous such studies comparing relatively similar classrooms in the U.S. to those in Japan, Korea, and other parts of Europe. There is no question that we, as a nation, are lagging far behind in math and science. I imagine it is true for the soft sciences as well, given that foreigners know more about our own history than we do.
    Because you have to take into account difference sin culture that may have someothing to do with results. The approach in Japan is very different to the apporach in the US. Students here spend most their time trying not to be students.

    Yes, you said you support the repeal of truancy laws and if disruptive students remain disruptive, they ought to be permanently removed. The repeal of truancy laws naturally means that parents and students have a right to refrain from education, altogether.
    Not abstain, get kicked out, and have parents babysit.

    Yes, it is quite simple. The terms 'freedom to choose' and 'open enrollment' are quite simple as well.
    Among public schools. Public is paid for by the public. Private is paid for privately.

    Wrong. Public schools pay an average of 12K per pupil per year. Private schools pay a fraction of the cost and they perform better.
    I used the word often. However, I did do a search: According to the National Association of Independent Schools, the median tuition for their member private day schools in 2008-2009 in the United States was $17,441. (There are cheaper and more expensive schools, but that is median. )

    Private vs. public schools - Defining Your Ideal School | GreatSchools

    I don't think that is a far assessment of my proposal. If you don't wish to change the rules and deregulate public education, then be prepared to tolerate overcrowded classrooms and sub-par education standards.
    Only two options?


    Is the teacher ever wrong or incompetent, in your opinion? Provide a scenario, if you don't mind.
    Of course. But the assumption is that it is widespread and common. It really isn't. Most teachers do a fine job.



    Oh, I understand. Status-quo once again. Currently, a colleague of the same department (whom therefore has a substantial relationship with the evaluated teacher) is doing the evaluation. You wish to change...nothing?
    Are you sugegsting someone who doesn't know the job or what the teacher should eb doing should do the evaluation?



    You actually think American parents, as a whole, care less about education? Again, comparisons of remarkably similar student populations have already been considered. Our students are no dumber than the European students. We're all human, after all.
    I think more care about the letter grade than the actual learning. Give than an easy A and there is rarely a complaint. Fail a child and watch parents beat down the door.


    Could you clarify the last part of this statement?
    I'll try. Countries don't compare directly.


    I'm left with the opinion, the system is fine, the people are stupid.
    To borrow a well know quote, a person is smart, people are stupid. But, know that isn't my point. You're not stupid if you not an expert in all things. In fact, knowing your limitations is actually quite smart.



    I agree that bubble tests are not the best to determine the performance of learning. But the really good tests are ones based on math and the hard sciences. In those fields, there is no subjective grading. I'm personally a history major and I know first-hand that essays based on historical analysis are graded entirely on the subjective views and standards of each individual professor.
    Very little of life is that exact. In fact, makig subjective judgements happen far often and require greater skill and knowledge than the easy objective lessons.



    Are you REALLY a teacher? I hope the subject you teach is not English, no offense intended.
    In fact, I am. Well respected and awarded as well. but I don't take a lot of time here, as I'm usually doing two or three things at once. So, no editing or proofreading. I'm a published author as well. Have even been featured in a local publication. So, I'm OK with making erroros here.

    Again, pure speculation without regard to any evidence. Those who leave the public schools for an alternative education benefit. And those who remain are at least left with a smaller class size and a greater teacher-student ratio. It also improves the less-than-adequate public school by forcing them to account for their methods and their funding. They have to. Best Buy doesn't continue to exist and expand because they waste money and they don't provide adequate service. In the marketplace, it's quite the opposite.
    There's a belief in education that the weak need the strong as examples.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And who should I vote for. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative and right now the GOP beats the alternative.




    Couldn't agree more, it isn't the Government's responsibility to create jobs nor can they that actually produce anything.




    That is what liberalism thinks they can do, take money and spend it wisely to redistribute wealth. It never works.



    You were doing so well, spending causes debt not tax cuts that promote the private sector. CEO's and corporate board members of private companies do not affect the U.S. Debt at all.
    Well maybe that depends on your point of view, tax cuts could be considered spending, the monies used are tax dollars that could be used as incentives for companies or individuals who actually want to create jobs. Ceo's and corporate board members who pick up their marbles and move to countries where they can pay a low wage have no rules or regulations to worry about might be effecting the US debt, what do you think?

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Well maybe that depends on your point of view, tax cuts could be considered spending, the monies used are tax dollars that could be used as incentives for companies or individuals who actually want to create jobs. Ceo's and corporate board members who pick up their marbles and move to countries where they can pay a low wage have no rules or regulations to worry about might be effecting the US debt, what do you think?
    I not only think but know that tax cuts have nothing to do with spending. You choose to spend and if you know you aren't going to get as much revenue as you need, you cut spending. That is what responsible people do. The govt. can and usually does print more money to pay for their excessive spending. Large corporations consist of about 20% of the work force but attrack most of the attention. The other 80% end up taking the liability for the liberal hatred of big business.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    I think we may have drifted a little off topic, although I do think we need a debate centered on the educational system we have that is not performing very well. The topic of this thread is “Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions”
    The thread has been off topic for a while now. It is hard to expect threads to remain on the same exact topic after 2000+ posts.

    I think it could be better entitled Walker takes a broad swipe at unions, Make that the republicans and tea partiers want to break the back of the unions, all unions and this is just the first swing, once they remove collective bargaining from the public employee unions they will have effectively delivered the death blow not only to the public unions but to all unions.
    Do you realize that these state bargaining laws only exist in a handful of states? I think I could count them all on one hand. I’ve argued continuously that workers have no special rights that the rest of citizens are not are entitled to. They have a right to petition the government, the right to assemble, the right to protest, and the right to speak. They do not have the right to coerce the government in order to force all public employees into unions and to force all such employees to automatically pay dues. And none of these laws or the rescinding of said laws has anything to do with private unions. Private unions do not possess any collective bargaining privileges nor should they.

    The Republicans and the Tea Baggers have a bigger target then the public unions they are attempting to destroy the democratic party and the middle class nothing less.
    First, you are right that this debate is about the power of political parties, NOT about protecting the supposed rights of workers. In that regard, we all know that the democrat party has the undying support of unions while both parties maintain strides with corporations. In my view, we need to separate both entities. Second, this has nothing to do with the middle class. Less than a quarter of all workers in this country are unionized so I can’t imagine Walker’s decision would have any effect on the strength of the middle class

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I think you're missing the point. I used the word may, because by limiting they may leave out, remove, not provide for a needed education.
    If you’re going to take the time to respond to such posts, you may wish to patiently review your work and correct any mistakes. That would avoid any confusion and save crucial time.

    Doing so for a discpline problem is one thing. Doing so to keep class size down another.
    The two differences (small class sizes and intolerance of bad behavior) are not necessarily related. In this debate, they’re two different subjects that require a separate analysis. Now, intolerance of bad behavior and the repeal of truancy laws are quite related. But I never implied or stated that the schools keep the class size down by solely removing the problem children. Of course, it is one way of doing so. But the more prudent fact is that the schools have the ability and freedom to expand, to branch out, and to hire more teachers when necessary. Also, there are far more private schools than there are public schools. You could have several independent schools in one region where there is only one public school.

    Better to move the public school to smaller classrooms while keeping enough rooms and teachers available to cover all the need.
    That is only if you can get past the red tape and convince all the administrators and politicians to build more schools. You can only expand the same classroom to such a degree.

    I support greater funding. But public funds go to public opperations, not private ones. If you fund public schools and allow the same advatages, you'll get the same results, maybe better.
    We have already done exactly that with flat line results. Again, it seems like you care more about securing the funding for public operations rather than promoting better education. This isn’t about saving the pension funds of public employees but about improving education, overall.

    There is nothing different in the teaching of private schools. The choice is actually a false one.
    Given that there are numerous studies contradicting what you say and also given that the sources you’ve provided contradict themselves, I beg to differ.

    Do you really believe this?
    Yes, I do believe there is a way that we could empower minors to take action if the parent refuses to make a decision. I’m sure it will require certain rules and regulations, but ultimately I believe it is possible to give the power to the student if the parent and/or guardian of the student is unable or unwilling to make the educational choice.

    No, you can't. They don't have the same students under the same conditions. It is more than background. The private school selects from that background, controls the class size. Has a different set of parents. They are not comparable or alike. It is a superficial comparison that doesn't dig deep enough to recognize the real differences.
    Let me refer you several studies using random sampling:

    http://www.edchoice.org/Documents/Sc...t-Effects.aspx

    You're going to have be more specific. I think you have a overgeneralized view of the situation.
    You must be joking. I was very specific. I even gave specific examples and scenarios, something I asked of you and failed to receive.

    You do know a second sentence follows this one. I think your a bright fellow, but think sometimes we break things up so much we miss what is being said. The sentence is a transitional sentence, noting your complaint, and leading your to the response.
    I question the integrity of this statement. The “second sentence” that follows this one is really unrelated to the first. The exact statement which I strategically broke up was “Again, cost is but one way schools discriminate.” The rest of the paragraph listed other ways in which you claim schools discriminate. I wanted to respond to each and every instance of discrimination, but I had already responded to cost discrimination numerous times to both you and other posters. I basically cut that part out of the paragraph and I went on to respond to other discriminating aspects.

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