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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

  1. #1881
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    what would you accept as evidence? Look at the schools. The teachers are all trained at the same places the same way. They don't use any different methods for teraching. So, they can not offer anything different in that area. What they offer is smaller class size, no acceptance of bad behavior because they can discriminate, and more parental involvement as a rule for acceptance.
    You have just named three major differences that private schools offer as an alternative to public schools. First of all, small class sizes are a good thing. If a private company is over flooded with an excess number of students, they have the capability and power to build another school. Second, I believe we've already agreed that bad behavior should no tbe tolerated anywhere, regardless of public or private affiliations. There's no changes in the private sector necessary to meet this standard. If you would like to see public schools discriminating against bad behavior, then you'll need to take the issue up with your local bureaucrats. But both of have agreed in the past that discriminating against bad behavior is a step in the right direction, and if students refuse to learn than so be it. Finally, more parental involvement in the education of students is quite positive. It is, after all, the parent's child and not the schools.

    That is not the case everywhere.
    It is the case in my district. But again, what is the ultimate outcome you'd like to see? You don't like it when private schools are able to expel misbehaving children and you've noted in the past that you don't like it when public schools are forced to keep such students, so what is the ultimate outcome you wish to see? You seem to be applying a double standard.

    No. Not faith.
    You said "I believe" and belief is the basis of faith, not knowledge.

    To answer I would have to know more. My experience tells me there are many reasons for a private school. In mississippi there's a private school where white parents don't want to go to school with black students.
    That's horrible, but ultimately it is the right of parents to decide where their kid will be taught. I'm all for integration but forced integration and forced busing hasn't led to any major improvements in the education system.

    I don't say there are a large number of schools like that, but there is one with that reason. I would have to know the population better to have any clue as to why. Maybe they give parents the grades they want their students to have. I can't say without knowing more.
    Then perhaps you should take a look at the study, yourself. The book is called The Beautiful Tree by James Tooley. And PS, the public school system in the countries where the study was conducted had horrible rates of attrition and achievement. The problem isn't bad schools giving phony grades, but rather bad schools tolerating bad habits (i.e. allowing teachers to read a newspaper and/or sleep while the children do busy work). And again, it is the right of parents to send their children to whatever school they deem is appropriate. If stupid parents wish to send their kids to a diploma mill, then we must let them. School choice must triumph over imposed slavery.

    I was listening to a study the other day. Later I'll try and find the link that said most people thoght their school we good, but most would leave if they were given the option. Most favor a charter school, but didn't know what oen was. It is quite possible that many really don't understand the real differences and are just responding to the rhetoric.
    And I wonder who was behind such a study. That's pretty condescending and elitist, if you ask me. You're implying teachers and administrators know what's best for a child more so than their own parents.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, from the middle class to the top.
    What world do you live in?

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I would say only slightly more so than McCain.
    Thats funny |207|


    get The Smilies @ https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/14455

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    For the wealthy, you and me pay more of the share so they can pay less. And you seem to be happy about that.
    You are wrong

    Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American, A Magazine of Ideas

    The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul*dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per*cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

  5. #1885
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You are wrong

    Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American, A Magazine of Ideas

    The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul*dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per*cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.
    Now stop it, liberals don't want to hear facts like that as they prefer to demonize the rich, right Catawba?

  6. #1886
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Then why don't the statistics back up your claims? My grandfather came from an extremely poor family and he went to a fine private school that was connected to his church. The school was located in a very poor neighborhood. How do you explain the great success of his private school, and thousands like it, if the kids are facing the same socio-economic obstacles of which you referenced?
    What statistics? Was your grandfather African American? How many different ethnic groups and individuals with learning disabilities attended his school, what were the class sizes, and was the church subsidizing some of the cost? You have to look at all the factors involved with the task that underfunded public schools must deal with.

    The bottom line with education is that it must allow for freedom of choice and open enrollment. Your zip code and your local government must not dictate where you send your child for learning. Education must be decentralized and driven from the bottom up.
    You can send your child anywhere you want to under our present system.

    Private school must not be reserved for only the wealthiest of Americans.
    You get what you pay for. You put as much money per student into public schools you would get the same results.

    Again with the education! You seem to think that a degree entitles you to a job.
    I have never said that, nor do I think that. But, I do believe a college education is a minimum requirement for teaching our children, and I don't expect a teacher, who has one of the most important, and most difficult jobs in our country to be paid less than a college educated professional would be paid in any other field.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    I thought anyone that claimed to be a shop steward in the past would realize that whatever contract is in effect at the time the freeze goes into effect, stays in effect. The only thing that the freeze affects is THE PAY INCREASES.

    I believe that an example of what I mean by a collective bargaining contract would make it a bit more clear in your foggy dome ptif219. How about instead of a Federal gov contract, lets take look at a contract of a police dept in a University town. Might as well start with Alaska, Wasilla to be exact.

    I realize that the freeze for federal employees doesn’t affect the Wasilla Police Department but I will use them as an example of some things that a collective bargaining agreement effects, other than wages. Seeing, as they are now a proud member of Teamster joint council #28, and proud members of local 959.

    Teamsters Local 959,and the city of Wasilla Ak. Signed a four year contract, effective 06/09/09 through 05/31/12. which is 33 pages long,if it were only wages it would be one small page...at the most. Signed(by Mayor Verne Rupright). Signed on Dec 07, 2009, which represents not only the 49 uniformed officers but also the dispatcher and support personal as well.

    A synopsis of what’s at the link.


    Article 21,holidays, sectin 21.05 ….blah, blah, blah,…one floating holiday must be used before May 31.

    Article 10, 10.01. more blah, blah, blah,.

    Seniority clause. Evidently the Chief had his favs.


    More blah, blah, blah,.

    Article 11, overtime. More blah, blah, blah,.

    Gotta go by seniority now… rather than to the suck ass,s.

    Aha, this is the part that explains that no one can strike.

    More blah, blah, blah,. But if you strike your ass is out in the cold…literally.

    11.06 more blah, blah, blah,. Over 40 hours and you’re on overtime.

    14.01 more blah, blah, blah,. Hhmm…nice perk, if you live less than 30 miles of the metropolis of Wasilla you get to take the car home with you.

    The officer’s pay starts at $26.36 and the top Sergeant makes $43.21…in 2009 dollars.


    Here if you want more download it yourself.

    City of Wasilla : Union Information
    The point is when a democrat freezes wages no complaint but when a GOP does what he said he would big blowout. Seems more like partisan politics by democrats

  8. #1888
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    That is a generalization without a lot of evidence. I don't deny that there are some schools which expel troubled youth and/or the lowest performers, but it would completely inaccurate to generalize all private and charter schools and claim that they all do this. I would argue that the majority do not do such a thing. Private schools are incredibly diverse. There are private learning centers that were created specifically to help under-performing youth achieve better results.
    I don't know of any study which determines the degree to which private and charter schools engage in this practice but from my experience I think it would be most of them. We will have to agree to disagree until the facts come to light, but what is clear is that you lack the evidence to support the assertions that private schools do any better.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You are wrong

    Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American, A Magazine of Ideas

    The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul*dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per*cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.
    That chart where you got your figures was the Internal Revenue Service was from 2004. That is not the latest data. Let's look at the IRS data from 2006.

    Distribution of Income - Top 1%=21.3%, Next 19%=40.1%, Bottom 80%=38.6%.

    The Bush tax cuts were very, very kind to the wealthy and they certainly did pay off for us, didn't they? Look at all the jobs the Bush tax cuts created.

    Source: http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589.pdf

  10. #1890
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That chart where you got your figures was the Internal Revenue Service was from 2004. That is not the latest data. Let's look at the IRS data from 2006.

    Distribution of Income - Top 1%=21.3%, Next 19%=40.1%, Bottom 80%=38.6%.

    The Bush tax cuts were very, very kind to the wealthy and they certainly did pay off for us, didn't they? Look at all the jobs the Bush tax cuts created.

    Source: http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589.pdf
    Bush tax cuts went into effect during the 2001 recession that he inherited and then had 9/11. Prior to 2008 his economy created over 8.5 million jobs according to bls. If you have a problem with those numbers then take it up with the bureau of labor statistics. The rich AFTER the Bush tax cuts are paying a higher percentage of the taxes than they were before and 47% of the income earners don't pay any Federal Income taxes at all. If you don't want your Bush tax cut send it back and let the govt. waste if for you.

    Employment numbers by month

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047
    2002 135701 136438 136177 136126 136539 136415 136413 136705 137302 137008 136521 136426
    2003 137417 137482 137434 137633 137544 137790 137474 137549 137609 137984 138424 138411
    2004 138472 138542 138453 138680 138852 139174 139556 139573 139487 139732 140231 140125
    2005 140245 140385 140654 141254 141609 141714 142026 142434 142401 142548 142499 142752
    2006 143142 143444 143765 143794 144108 144370 144229 144631 144797 145292 145477 145914
    2007 146032 146043 146368 145686 145952 146079 145926 145685 146193 145885 146483 146173
    2008 146421 146165 146173 146306 146023 145768 145515 145187 145021 144677 143907 143188
    2009 142221 141687 140854 140902 140438 140038 139817 139433 138768 138242 138381 137792
    2010 138333 138641 138905 139455 139420 139119 138960 139250 139391 139061 138888 139206
    2011 139323
    Last edited by Conservative; 03-03-11 at 10:53 PM.

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