Page 188 of 201 FirstFirst ... 88138178186187188189190198 ... LastLast
Results 1,871 to 1,880 of 2002

Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

  1. #1871
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Just oe thing, for every private school you mention that worked, you can find one that didn;t if yoyu look. I know one in Mississippi that did not work. But always remember a private school is under no obligation to take anyone. Even if they are not selective based on priledge or academic success, they can still say no in terms of number or to displine problems or any number of problems the public school MUST take.
    But ultimately, shouldn't there be free choice? I never claimed that private schools were perfect by any measure. I have claimed that private schools generally see better results than public schools and this is accurate.

  2. #1872
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Just oe thing, for every private school you mention that worked, you can find one that didn;t if yoyu look. I know one in Mississippi that did not work. But always remember a private school is under no obligation to take anyone. Even if they are not selective based on priledge or academic success, they can still say no in terms of number or to discipline problems or any number of problems the public school MUST take.
    By the way, there are plenty of private schools that accept children regardless of income and/or disciplinary problems. In fact, many public schools are forced to send troubled youth to an almost private academy that mirrors the structure of a charter school.

    Second, public schools are accountable to several dozen layers of bureaucratic boards, trusts, commissions, etc. who are in turn accountable to politicians who are in turn accountable to their constituents. For a public school, a parent must jump through several dozen hoops in order to voice their opinions and/or concerns and simply pray that their voices are heard.

    Private schools, on the other hand, are almost directly accountable to the parent. Since the parent is the basic consumer of the education (in a way), they ought to have more power over their purchasing decisions.

  3. #1873
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,124

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    But ultimately, shouldn't there be free choice? I never claimed that private schools were perfect by any measure. I have claimed that private schools generally see better results than public schools and this is accurate.
    Actually that would be incorrect. Private, unlike public schools, siimply expel their lowest performers so as to show on paper that they are doing better. I don't know of any study which has corrected for this practice so you cannot claim they do better.

  4. #1874
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually that would be incorrect. Private, unlike public schools, siimply expel their lowest performers so as to show on paper that they are doing better. I don't know of any study which has corrected for this practice so you cannot claim they do better.
    That is a generalization without a lot of evidence. I don't deny that there are some schools which expel troubled youth and/or the lowest performers, but it would completely inaccurate to generalize all private and charter schools and claim that they all do this. I would argue that the majority do not do such a thing. Private schools are incredibly diverse. There are private learning centers that were created specifically to help under-performing youth achieve better results.

  5. #1875
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    By the way, there are plenty of private schools that accept children regardless of income and/or disciplinary problems. In fact, many public schools are forced to send troubled youth to an almost private academy that mirrors the structure of a charter school.

    Second, public schools are accountable to several dozen layers of bureaucratic boards, trusts, commissions, etc. who are in turn accountable to politicians who are in turn accountable to their constituents. For a public school, a parent must jump through several dozen hoops in order to voice their opinions and/or concerns and simply pray that their voices are heard.

    Private schools, on the other hand, are almost directly accountable to the parent. Since the parent is the basic consumer of the education (in a way), they ought to have more power over their purchasing decisions.
    And I did not say there wan't. And I specifically made a point of noting that such could be accepted and they could still discriminate for other reasons, making them different than a public school that could not.

    And this direct accountability in part is do to this ability to discriminate. The private school can decide the size, who they will accept and be rid of, and so on. Public schools can't do any of that, so it is more than just the layers, though I've never had any problem being heard at any of the public schools my children went to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #1876
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I did not say there wan't. And I specifically made a point of noting that such could be accepted and they could still discriminate for other reasons, making them different than a public school that could not.
    What is your point? Is that if we empower a more localized, bottom-up approach to education, that somehow all the nation's troubled youth will find themselves forced out of an education? That is an exaggeration based on the actions of a few private schools. Again, I'll repeat. There are private and charter schools whose entire existence has been to improve the achievement rates of troubled youth.

    And this direct accountability in part is do to this ability to discriminate.
    Yes, the parent's ability to discriminate against certain schools. That's the kind of discrimination that weeds out bad schools or learning institutions that are deemed undesirable. Parents should have the ultimate choice of schooling.

    The private school can decide the size, who they will accept and be rid of, and so on.
    Yes, to a certain extent. But again, you're implying that the majority operate in this sort of fashion. They don't. There are thousands upon thousands of parents playing the lottery so that their child can have a decent education. The schools attached to such lotteries are your average private schools, and the kids playing the lottery are your average inner-city kids. The difference is the concern of parents who strive to make something better for their children. In a consumer-driven educational market, concerned parents will see a better result in their child's education while unconcerned parents will notice little to no change. I'm willing to make that exchange for it is better to educate a significant portion of kids rather than to impose a below-mediocre education on all of them.
    Public schools can't do any of that, so it is more than just the layers, though I've never had any problem being heard at any of the public schools my children went to.
    Given that you are a teacher, I don't doubt it. However there's a major difference between a board hearing your complaints and a school considering your complaints.
    Last edited by Mensch; 03-03-11 at 06:25 PM.

  7. #1877
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    What is your point?
    That either private schools will come to look more like public schools, with no help as we merely moved the problem. Or they will lose a number of young people altogether.

    Yes, the parent's ability to discriminate against certain schools. That's the kind of discrimination that weeds out bad schools or learning institutions that are deemed undesirable. Parents should have the ultimate choice of schooling.
    I think I spoke to something different. Schools can discrimnate against problem students in a way public schools cannot.

    Yes, to a certain extent. But again, you're implying that the majority operate in this sort of fashion. They don't. There are thousands upon thousands of parents playing the lottery so that their child can have a decent education. The schools attached to such lotteries are your average private schools, and the kids playing the lottery are your average inner-city kids. The difference is the concern of parents who strive to make something better for their children. In a consumer-driven educational market, concerned parents will see a better result in their child's education while unconcerned parents will notice little to no change. I'm willing to make that exchange for it is better to educate a significant portion of kids rather than to impose a below-mediocre education on all of them.
    Public schools can't do any of that, so it is more than just the layers, though I've never had any problem being heard at any of the public schools my children went to.
    No, I believe largely they do. They don't over extend. Classroom sizes are kept down. Problem students are set free. And parents on the whole miss a lot. The dealings I've seen with parents are more give the grade and not teach the child. Private schools don't have a different education method. An English teacher in both teach the same content in much the same way. There is no magic. The difference is in the population and the ability to set the parameters of who attends.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #1878
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That either private schools will come to look more like public schools, with no help as we merely moved the problem. Or they will lose a number of young people altogether.
    Where's your evidence? The evidence is piled against you. Again, numerous learning institutions and schools are created solely to reach out to troubled youth and under-performing youth. You seem to generalize ALL private schools as represented by the most elite establishments that are catered to a higher economic bracket. Private schools like Horace Mann and Phillips Academy Andover represent a microscopic fraction of all private schools nation-wide.

    I think I spoke to something different. Schools can discriminate against problem students in a way public schools cannot.
    Maybe the rules are a little different in your district. In my district, troubled youth are almost immediately removed from the large-scale suburban high schools and placed directly in the hands of charter-like establishments that are intended to improve the achievement rates of students.

    No, I believe largely they do.
    And there's the basis of your argument- FAITH.

    They don't over extend. Classroom sizes are kept down. Problem students are set free. And parents on the whole miss a lot. The dealings I've seen with parents are more give the grade and not teach the child. Private schools don't have a different education method. An English teacher in both teach the same content in much the same way. There is no magic. The difference is in the population and the ability to set the parameters of who attends.
    Then explain to me why there are about a dozen private schools in a single square mile of the poorest developing country while there exists a public FREE school? I've brought this up before and you've never been able to respond. People who are making a dollar a day are spending 3-7$ a month (on average) so that their children can attend a private school. This is DESPITE the existence of a free public school. Certainly school choice makes a load of difference.

  9. #1879
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,619

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually that would be incorrect. Private, unlike public schools, siimply expel their lowest performers so as to show on paper that they are doing better. I don't know of any study which has corrected for this practice so you cannot claim they do better.
    that's BS from what I saw-I spent all my school years in private schools the only people booted were

    1) two guys caught selling/buying speed in the bathroom

    2) two tenth graders who beat up and then pulled pocketknives on an 8th grader

    the kids who did poorly got extra tutoring etc

    the guy second to last or last in my class got good boards, got into vanderbilt and graduated summa cum laude



  10. #1880
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Where's your evidence? The evidence is piled against you. Again, numerous learning institutions and schools are created solely to reach out to troubled youth and under-performing youth. You seem to generalize ALL private schools as represented by the most elite establishments that are catered to a higher economic bracket. Private schools like Horace Mann and Phillips Academy Andover represent a microscopic fraction of all private schools nation-wide.
    what would you accept as evidence? Look at the schools. The teachers are all trained at the same places the same way. They don't use any different methods for teraching. So, they can not offer anything different in that area. What they offer is smaller class size, no acceptance of bad behavior because they can discriminate, and more parental involvement as a rule for acceptance.


    Maybe the rules are a little different in your district. In my district, troubled youth are almost immediately removed from the large-scale suburban high schools and placed directly in the hands of charter-like establishments that are intended to improve the achievement rates of students.
    That is not the case everywhere.


    And there's the basis of your argument- FAITH.
    No. Not faith.


    Then explain to me why there are about a dozen private schools in a single square mile of the poorest developing country while there exists a public FREE school? I've brought this up before and you've never been able to respond. People who are making a dollar a day are spending 3-7$ a month (on average) so that their children can attend a private school. This is DESPITE the existence of a free public school. Certainly school choice makes a load of difference.
    To answer I would have to know more. My experience tells me there are many reasons for a private school. In mississippi there's a private school where white parents don't want to go to school with black students. I don't say there are a large number of schools like that, but there is one with that reason. I would have to know the population better to have any clue as to why. Maybe they give parents the grades they want their students to have. I can't say without knowing more.

    I was listening to a study the other day. Later I'll try and find the link that said most people thoght their school we good, but most would leave if they were given the option. Most favor a charter school, but didn't know what oen was. It is quite possible that many really don't understand the real differences and are just responding to the rhetoric.

    But again, I can't say without knowing more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •