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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

  1. #1611
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have read about the book. I have read a summary of the book. I have read criticism of the book. i did once pick it up in a bookstore, sat down with it for a bit and thumbed through it reading a bit here and there to get the flavor of it.

    I do nto need to ingest the entire buffet table to get an idea of the quality of the food.

    I am far more familiar with it and its premise and claims that just someone who has not read the book. So please put that to rest.
    You didn't even know the name of the book I was referencing! You thought I told someone to go down the road to serfdom! LOL.

    If you haven't read the book, then your credibility is a flop. I've read the General Theory by Keynes. I've read the Communist Manifesto. I have the necessary credentials to debate such topics. You don't. You're simply spouting your empty opinions and your posts are not worth a response.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I linked to the info previously. At any rate, here it is again and this time from the same site you linked to before regarding your strawman argument:

    2010 Outside Spending, by Groups | OpenSecrets

    My claim is backed up here that 7 out of 10 of the big money donors were conservative.
    So, you have one year where conservatives are out-spending liberals. But what do you have to say for the past 20 years?

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You didn't even know the name of the book I was referencing! You thought I told someone to go down the road to serfdom! LOL.

    If you haven't read the book, then your credibility is a flop. I've read the General Theory by Keynes. I've read the Communist Manifesto. I have the necessary credentials to debate such topics. You don't. You're simply spouting your empty opinions and your posts are not worth a response.
    What in the world are you babbling on about? Quit acting like a fifth grade kid on the playground. We both know the discussion is about the book THE ROAD TO SERFDOM by Hayek.

    As I told you - I have read about it. I have read good summaries of it. I have read academic criticisms of it which summarized all the main points. I have picked it up and looked it over and read passages in it.

    I know the damn book kid.

    I do not need to swim all the way from NYCity to Liverpoos to know that the water is wet and salty.

    You remind me of the gun nuts who try to prove their superior technical knowledge of weapons as a way of silencing their critics.

    But so far, all you have done is play games and have said nothing about the actual isse.

    But do keep it up.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-01-11 at 04:02 PM.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    So, you have one year where conservatives are out-spending liberals. But what do you have to say for the past 20 years?
    That for the first time in 20 years we have a government that is standing up to corporations. I see this as a good thing. However, if the unions can be busted, that leaves only the corporations as the big money campaign donors. I have see what happens under one party rule and it is not pretty.

    Shepard Smith on union busting:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fd_1298565624
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    The American people in solid opposition to what Walker is trying to do in Wisconsin

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/us/01poll.html?_r=1

    As labor battles erupt in state capitals around the nation, a majority of Americans say they oppose efforts to weaken the collective bargaining rights of public employee unions and are also against cutting the pay or benefits of public workers to reduce state budget deficits, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

    Labor unions are not exactly popular, though: A third of those surveyed viewed them favorably, a quarter viewed them unfavorably, and the rest said they were either undecided or had not heard enough about them. But the nationwide poll found that embattled public employee unions have the support of most Americans — and most independents — as they fight the efforts of newly elected Republican governors in Wisconsin and Ohio to weaken their bargaining powers, and the attempts of governors from both parties to cut their pay or benefits. Americans oppose weakening the bargaining rights of public employee unions by a margin of nearly two to one: 60 percent to 33 percent. While a slim majority of Republicans favored taking away some bargaining rights, they were outnumbered by large majorities of Democrats and independents who said they opposed weakening them.

    Those surveyed said they opposed, 56 percent to 37 percent, cutting the pay or benefits of public employees to reduce deficits, breaking down along similar party lines. A majority of respondents who have no union members living in their households opposed both cuts in pay or benefits and taking away the collective bargaining rights of public employees.

    Governors in both parties have been making the case that public workers are either overpaid or have overly generous health and pension benefits. But 61 percent of those polled — including just over half of Republicans — said they thought the salaries and benefits of most public employees were either “about right” or “too low” for the work they do.

    When it came to one of the most debated, and expensive, benefits that many government workers enjoy but private sector workers do not — the ability to retire early, and begin collecting pension checks — Americans were closely divided. Forty-nine percent said police officers and firefighters should be able to retire and begin receiving pension checks even if they are in their 40s or 50s; 44 percent said they should have to be older. There was a similar divide on whether teachers should be able to retire and draw pensions before they are 65.

    The nationwide telephone poll was conducted Feb. 24-27 with 984 adults and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points for all adults. Of those surveyed, 20 percent said there was a union member in their household, and 25 percent said there was a public employee in their household.

    Tax increases were not as unpopular among those surveyed as they are among many governors, who have vowed to avoid them. Asked how they would choose to reduce their state’s deficits, those polled preferred tax increases over benefit cuts for state workers by nearly two to one. Given a list of options to reduce the deficit, 40 percent said they would increase taxes, 22 percent chose decreasing the benefits of public employees, 20 percent said they would cut financing for roads and 3 percent said they would cut financing for education.

    The most contentious issue to emerge in the recent labor battles has been the question of collective bargaining rights. A proposal by Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin to weaken them sent Democratic state lawmakers out of state to prevent a vote, flooded the Capitol in Madison with thousands of protesters and sparked a national discussion about unions.

    The poll found that an overwhelming 71 percent of Democrats opposed weakening collective bargaining rights. But there was also strong opposition from independents: 62 percent of them said they opposed taking bargaining rights away from public employee unions.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That for the first time in 20 years we have a government that is standing up to corporations. I see this as a good thing. However, if the unions can be busted, that leaves only the corporations as the big money campaign donors. I have see what happens under one party rule and it is not pretty.

    Shepard Smith on union busting:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fd_1298565624
    For God sake's man! Both of our sources prove that both parties are receiving MASSIVE amounts of corporate and union money. There is no "standing up" to corporations. We live in a corporatist society, and the democrat party is not the savior that will restore an unbias government. Both parties cater to unions and corporations. If you want a party that refuses to cater to both, you'd have to vote libertarian.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    For God sake's man! Both of our sources prove that both parties are receiving MASSIVE amounts of corporate and union money. There is no "standing up" to corporations. We live in a corporatist society, and the democrat party is not the savior that will restore an unbias government. Both parties cater to unions and corporations. If you want a party that refuses to cater to both, you'd have to vote libertarian.
    And if enough people flock to the party of your urging, then they could swell the 2012 Presidential Libertarian numbers to one-half of one percent of the popular vote.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Elijah Galt



    Being on the Road to Serfdom would do me good!!!!!!!! That is one of the most amazing things i have ever read here.

    No thank you. I will attempt to stay off that road as best I can.
    Here it is again, for your convenience. You really had no idea.

  9. #1619
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And if enough people flock to the party of your urging, then they could swell the 2012 Presidential Libertarian numbers to one-half of one percent of the popular vote.
    Say what you will. Libertarian and libertarian-like politicians are the only ones not shaping government to the point where its purpose is to serve special interest groups.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    For God sake's man! Both of our sources prove that both parties are receiving MASSIVE amounts of corporate and union money. There is no "standing up" to corporations. We live in a corporatist society, and the democrat party is not the savior that will restore an unbias government. Both parties cater to unions and corporations. If you want a party that refuses to cater to both, you'd have to vote libertarian.
    You miss the point that it is the GOP that the largest money donors are supporting today since this administration is stepping on corporate toes. Libertarian positions are two extreme to be a viable party in the forseeable future. Since I do not want a one party system, I am pro union (not only because I support adequate wages for our public servants) but also because the only thing worse than a two party system would be a one party system.

    Libertarian positions are still too extreme to garner anything but a fractional portion of the votes.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-01-11 at 04:31 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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