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Thread: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

  1. #111
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Superstars? How much are teachers being paid that you can compare them to superstars?

    Side question: How much do you believe the people that teach our children should be paid?
    A superstar teacher in the private sector can make $100,000, but not the average. That is what I meant.

    I think they should be paid what the free market decides. Get government out of the schools... they've turned them to rot. Let the teachers negotiate their contracts indiviudally. Let poor schools and teachers fail and find other management or jobs. If it's 100G... in the private sector... fine! But there aren't many worth that much.

    We had a better education system before the DoE and unionized teachers. No wonder. If you couldn't cut it you found other work or got your act together. If a teacher of 15-years is mediocre, there is no way this individual should be paid the same as an exceptional educator of 5 or 6-years.

    If I'm running a school, you can bet I'll know the performance of the teachers and act accordingly. The lower rung teachers I would be looking to replace with better talent, until I had a lineup I knew was giving the kids a solid grounding. If each school did that, watch the standards jump. You can be sure other schools would be seeking my talent too. But I'd be sure to have a environment where the teachers and students could excel. If another school bought one or more away, good for them.

    We need that brought into the education system. Instead we have the dry rot and too high costs unionization brings.
    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 02-20-11 at 09:49 AM.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You cannot have an intellectual discussion with people whose knowledge of unions and union members is a perverted distortion of a cartoon universe in which reality never intrudes or raises its head.

    some here should read this

    The Betrayal of Public Workers | The Nation

    WARNING: It is not a cartoon caricature written in a drive-by cliche filled style designed to appeal to people who think unions and Tony Soprano are the same people.
    There are a lot of people in this thread that need to heed the following

    Disgusted Allen West to Dems: Grow Up! - Rep. Allen West - Fox Nation

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Walkers' on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace right now.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    though this all smells like union busting, rather than effective budget control, im all for it.. if WI wants it differently, they'll have a chance to say so in a couple of years..

    IMO teachers make puh-lenty..
    do the math.. they showed a lady who claims to make 40K per year. 40,000 / 175(which includes a plethora of holidays) = 228 per day / 8 = 28.5 per hour . of this income less that 5% is for retirement and health insurance.
    pretty darn good deal IMO..
    in my own district, the super' retired a few years back with all his accrued vacation for 30yrs, which was manipulated so the rate he was to be paid was from his final year of "service" .
    it amounted to a 100K per year retirement fund paid by the taxpayers.
    the next super stepped right into a 100K per year job in a town of less than 3000 people..

    i challenge anyone to find a way to tell me this is a 'just' cause/result .

    i could give more examples of how the teachers union has destroyed america's schools, but ill leave room for others..

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    A superstar teacher in the private sector can make $100,000, but not the average. That is what I meant.

    I think they should be paid what the free market decides. Get government out of the schools... they've turned them to rot. Let the teachers negotiate their contracts indiviudally. Let poor schools and teachers fail and find other management or jobs. If it's 100G... in the private sector... fine! But there aren't many worth that much.

    We had a better education system before the DoE and unionized teachers. No wonder. If you couldn't cut it you found other work or got your act together. If a teacher of 15-years is mediocre, there is no way this individual should be paid the same as an exceptional educator of 5 or 6-years.

    If I'm running a school, you can bet I'll know the performance of the teachers and act accordingly. The lower rung teachers I would be looking to replace with better talent, until I had a lineup I knew was giving the kids a solid grounding. If each school did that, watch the standards jump. You can be sure other schools would be seeking my talent too. But I'd be sure to have a environment where the teachers and students could excel. If another school bought one or more away, good for them.

    We need that brought into the education system. Instead we have the dry rot and too high costs unionization brings.
    .
    Who is this free market monster? Why is the free market infallible? You know what the free market also produces?

    -Bernie Madoff
    -Enron
    -Insider Trading
    -Pollution
    -Declining Insurance Payments
    -Derivatives Trading
    -Price Setting

    To name just a few off the top of my head. So can we cut this "the free market is perfect" nonsense. The free market is a beast that if left untamed would destroy us.

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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    You exactly subsidized me? It is not about punishing anyone or a race to the bottom. It is about paying someone what you feel is right. If Wisc. teachers think they can make more money elsewhere, go for it.

    I also wonder if these teachers are committing fraud when they call in sick, get paid and then go protest.
    They are getting written excuses from real doctors at the protest. They are being good role models for the students they took to the protest aren't they?
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I say its silly and not a little bit pathetic that you keep hearkening back to the 1920's as your justification for preserving unions. Should I point to the 70's and 80's and say that because of that era all unions are nothing more than fronts for organized crime activity?
    Some here seem to think that without the Unions the workers would just be out there at the hands of people who can treat them all ways imaginable. Walker brought up that Wisconsin has one of the strongest Civil Service Protection Laws in the Country. He also said that without paying Union dues (which will be voluntary if his bill passes)it would help offset what will be taken out for heathcare and pensions. He says Unions have become too powerful.
    He said he doesn't want to lay-off a single person but they may have to lay off between 5-6 thousand if they can't get the budget in line.
    He also said they received 19,000 emails (think in one day) and most were in support of what he is doing.
    Anyway, here is a link to Wisconsin's Civil service protection laws. I think they'll be just fine even if the Unions are busted.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0230.pdf
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    These many different Wisconsin threads and their rabid anti-union vitriol reminds me of the great line of King Theoden in the film THE TWO TOWERS as his fortress of Helms Deep is besieged by an army of savage orcs who would destroy his civilization

    "what can men do against such reckless hate?"

    At least the working men and women of Wisconsin are standing tall and demonstrating what each of them can do.
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-20-11 at 12:01 PM.
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    though this all smells like union busting, rather than effective budget control, im all for it.. if WI wants it differently, they'll have a chance to say so in a couple of years..

    IMO teachers make puh-lenty..
    do the math.. they showed a lady who claims to make 40K per year. 40,000 / 175(which includes a plethora of holidays) = 228 per day / 8 = 28.5 per hour . of this income less that 5% is for retirement and health insurance.
    pretty darn good deal IMO..
    in my own district, the super' retired a few years back with all his accrued vacation for 30yrs, which was manipulated so the rate he was to be paid was from his final year of "service" .
    it amounted to a 100K per year retirement fund paid by the taxpayers.
    the next super stepped right into a 100K per year job in a town of less than 3000 people..

    i challenge anyone to find a way to tell me this is a 'just' cause/result .

    i could give more examples of how the teachers union has destroyed america's schools, but ill leave room for others..
    do you work for this school district? are you a teacher?

  10. #120
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    Re: Walker takes broad swipe at public employee unions

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The sweet smell of sobriety.

    .
    The assault on workers continues. Quote from the article:

    Walker said Friday his proposals were necessary to help the state overcome the $137 million hole in the current budget, and eventually help the state make up the $3.6 billion shortfall projected for the next biennial budget.
    So you have to attack workers to make sure you get enough money? What about reforming the state's 7.9% flat tax on corporations?

    Also what is this:

    But the governor said he was prepared, should other state workers strike in protest. Walker has already talked with the National Guard about possibly filling in with the Department of Corrections if employees there attempt a work stoppage.
    about?

    The threat of the NG is nothing but trying to use force to break the backs of the workers and make sure that they won't protest.

    While unions will have to take some (economic) pain as well, there is absolutely no need to threaten the use of the National Guard.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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