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Thread: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    The OP hints of the reality. The budget is intended to be BS, and most presidents would do this. He's put things in there that have already not gotten traction, he knows it won't.

    What you're seeing is evidence of how government doesn't work well, with the buden of running too much of our economy. Too much is tied up in politican's hands. Goes for repubs too, Bush was probably the single most incentivized person on earth to NOT increase taxes...but he did. That's how broken government is when trying to centrall plan an economy.

    What's going to happen is everyone including Obama will ultimately ignore that budget, and they won't take action until after the election, ouch. Of course, a system that can't function on a routine basis because of elections...well that's a broken system, and you know it. But once elections are over, they will meet in back rooms where we can't judge their behavior, and they will work out a compromise on budget. And the theme of it will be, kick the can down the road again. You know it, I know it.

    That's how they work, not because Obama is incompetent, but because that's how a political government functions...like a crazy idiot drug addict, with bad manners. If I hate Fidelity investments, I take everyting out and move to UBS, or hell, hire someone to deal with Fidelity. I have choices, I can make immediate corrective action, I can make it work. Govenment? We're all just watching the tragedy infold year after year. I say tragedy only beacuse they have so much of our wealth to fumble around with. Cut them down to $1.5T budget and it's just a sad drama rather than a full blow tragedy...tolerable.

    The never should have passed permanent hand-outs in the form of our modern entitlement programs. It should have either been unconstitutional and ensured to be in the future, or it should have been a temporary measure due to a specific, transient, crisis. Instead, they leveraged crisis to make it permanent, and now you can never get a majority to go take money from seniors. You have to ask the younger generation, to sacrifice EVEN MORE to pay them off...well, **** that, you know what they will say? Let's just kick the can, just like they taught us how and showed us it was OK.
    Last edited by Mach; 02-15-11 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Driver? Not sure that is the word I used, but the largest components of the budget involve Medicare, SS, and the military. You have to address that if cuts are the way you want to go. I would target some specific cuts in the three, restructure in some cases, and increase taxes as we move forward. These things provide a service, and are important. However, leaving things as they is not wise. And if the deficit is a concern, you have to propose a plan that will actually reduce, and not just elect republicans and forget about it.
    First, being a democrat I have no interest in getting republicans elected. Social Security and Medicare are self funded through payroll taxes as you may know. While I agree that long term they are not viable and should be fixed now, that will not reduce our current deficit problem. So if you want specifics, look at what happened in the 80's with social security. They increased the age for retirement and increased the wage limit. This should be done now and should probably be automatically adjusted every decade using real actuarial assumptions. As to Medicare, probably have to increase the age requirement and also increase the payroll tax as this is more costly than any previous assumptions. The military should take a huge haircut. I am in favor of getting out of Afghanistan which saves $100 billion a year. I would also close foreign bases and get out of NATO. The goal would be to reduce military by 100-200 billion annually.

    So real cuts and taxes for real problems. No pointing fingers back and forth about who did what when.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    1. it is projected to be in the near future
    2. if you give me back 7.65% + payroll 7.65%, you've left some wiggle room for increases in other tax rates some, effectively making elimination of entitlements able to potentiall "bring in more tax revenue". It's all coming from my pocket either way right?
    see my response to boo.

  4. #34
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    First, being a democrat I have no interest in getting republicans elected. Social Security and Medicare are self funded through payroll taxes as you may know. While I agree that long term they are not viable and should be fixed now, that will not reduce our current deficit problem. So if you want specifics, look at what happened in the 80's with social security. They increased the age for retirement and increased the wage limit. This should be done now and should probably be automatically adjusted every decade using real actuarial assumptions. As to Medicare, probably have to increase the age requirement and also increase the payroll tax as this is more costly than any previous assumptions. The military should take a huge haircut. I am in favor of getting out of Afghanistan which saves $100 billion a year. I would also close foreign bases and get out of NATO. The goal would be to reduce military by 100-200 billion annually.

    So real cuts and taxes for real problems. No pointing fingers back and forth about who did what when.
    As what comes in for medicare and SS doesn't cover what goes out as I understand it, then it does contribute to deficit. In the beginning, again as I nderstand it, more were paying in than recieved benefits, making it viable. Today, with fewer people contributing than need the services, and with people living longer, a good thing mind you, it eats up more than comes in.

    I am not suggesting the program be done away with, but without some changes, it likely won't stay viable. better to tackle them now.

    Yes, I do see you make some suggestions, and these are effectively cuts, meaning less money will be paid out, and by cutting when you can use the services, you make a cut in the money that will be spent.

    And as best I can tell, we largely agree.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As what comes in for medicare and SS doesn't cover what goes out as I understand it, then it does contribute to deficit. In the beginning, again as I nderstand it, more were paying in than recieved benefits, making it viable. Today, with fewer people contributing than need the services, and with people living longer, a good thing mind you, it eats up more than comes in.

    I am not suggesting the program be done away with, but without some changes, it likely won't stay viable. better to tackle them now.

    Yes, I do see you make some suggestions, and these are effectively cuts, meaning less money will be paid out, and by cutting when you can use the services, you make a cut in the money that will be spent.

    And as best I can tell, we largely agree.
    I think that the inflows for social security and medicare still outpace outflows. The concern is next decade as the boomers retire en masse.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    "But the economy is bad , we can't raise taxes to pay down the deficit, it'll be worse!".

    "But the economy is good, we can't raise taxes to pay down the deficit, it'll make it bad!".

    Pretty much what I get from these people.

    you know what I'd like to get from "you" people, is what you think would be an acceptable tax rate .... Top end something that we would never go over .... Something else I would like to get from "you" people ... is why is welfare a life long system for people that aren't incapable of working? Why is it that "you" people think that the best way to fix any of our social programs that are broken and not working, is to throw more money at them, and never worry about fixing them?

    Seeing I'm part of "them" people, maybe you like to answer for "your" people

    I seem to remember a long winded post of yours in another thread telling the American people that they can over come this mess we are in, well let me tell you something, we don't stand a chance of it .. when you post things like............. "Pretty much what I get from these people.".............as long as we continue to divide, we won't over come a damn thing, and your other post in the other thread ..... just goes to show your own Hypocrisy of how people should come together only as long as they think the way "you" people think

    The way I see it .. you are tossing around your liberal view, and don't even have a dog in this hunt
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 02-15-11 at 09:23 PM.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Might not be my choice, as I woudl support just letting the Bush tax cuts expire. But, the concept that there needs to be an increase in taxes is sound. It is just a matter of which ones.
    No the answer is quit spending and stop all subsidies

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think we are ignoring the elephant in the room ~

    "Obama's new budget puts forward a plan to achieve $1.1 trillion in deficit reductions over the next decade, according to an administration official who spoke to the Associated Press on condition of anonymity in advance of the formal release of the budget.

    Those reductions -- averaging just over $100 billion each year -- are achieved mainly by squeezing social programs. A deal struck to extend the Bush tax cuts for just two years, meanwhile, increased the deficit by $858 billion dollars. More than $500 billion of that bargain constituted tax cuts, with billions more funding business tax breaks and a reduction in the estate tax. Roughly $56 billion went to reauthorize emergency unemployment benefits.

    The president's budget was expected to mostly target "non-defense discretionary spending," which makes up less than one-quarter of the overall budget, making balancing the budget with such cuts mathematically impossible.

    Indeed, the driver of the deficit is tax cuts. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that as a result of the tax cut deal, the projected deficit in Obama's budget will reach a "record" level of $1.6 trillion this year, though that figure, relative to the size of the American economy, is far lower than many other governments around the world, according to data compiled by the Central Intelligence Agency. And the relative deficit is well below the levels of the 1940s, a time of economic prosperity. "President Barack Obama's 2012 budget proposal projects this year's deficit will reach $1.6 trillion, the largest on record, as December's tax-cut deal begins to reduce federal revenues, a senior Democrat said Sunday," the Journal reported Sunday evening. (The deficit is only a record if it is neither adjusted for inflation nor considered relative to the size of GDP.)"
    Obama Budget Proposal: Cuts To Target Working Poor, Middle Class & Students (LIVE UPDATES)
    More fuzzy math. It depends on the economy getting better which is questionable with Obama as president

  9. #39
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    More fuzzy math. It depends on the economy getting better which is questionable with Obama as president
    What do you mean that the tax cuts for the rich depend on the economy getting better?
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  10. #40
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No the GOP has a mandate that came with the voters choice in 2010. The GOP is trying to get rid of bad law that will put a fiancial burden on taxpayers
    Actually, the GOP mandate was to fix the economy.... the idea of repealing healthcare was a minority position, even on election day.

    A Clear Rejection of the Status Quo, No Consensus about Future Policies - Pew Research Center

    BTW... what steps have the Republicans taken to fulfill their mandate since their election?

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