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Thread: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

  1. #211
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You ignore Reagans tax hikes

    Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010

    Reagan was certainly a tax cutter legislatively, emotionally and ideologically. But for a variety of political reasons, it was hard for him to ignore the cost of his tax cuts," said tax historian Joseph Thorndike.

    Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together "constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.
    Excellent information on your site there Ptif that you once again did not read. Your article documents that: Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28% in addition to providing more business deductions. Then he raised the SS tax, which is more of a hardship for the middle class because of a cap for the rich. And even still he spent far more than he raised taxes for the middle class. Look at the charts there on the site you linked. Higher spending than revenues equals debt, and Reagan hit the historic high mark in debt.

    So you pay more taxes thanks to Reagan/Bush tax policy and the super rich people pay less.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-18-11 at 10:44 PM.
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    What should be the highest percent of income one should have to pay
    It should be proportional to your total net worth. The exact percentage can only be accurately determined after wasteful spending is cut to determine the revenue needed to pay our bills. Otherwise, you get the mammoth debt that Reagan and Bush brought us.
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That is actually not very practical. Are you suggesting that you tax the gross receipts of small business owners? That isn't fair. So if you don't, you bring deductions to the table.
    Possibly, but here is how I see it. If everyone was taxed proportionally to their total income and no one had deductions or loopholes the far greater revenues would allow the effective tax rate to be lower than was obtained through deductions.

    This is actually the most regressive way to do this, as believe it or not, in the current tax schema exempt income (deductions, credits, and exemptions) is a much higher percentage of income amongst lower income tax payers than higher income tax payers.
    I don't see the regressive aspect as the taxes would be proportional to net worth. So the tax class that own 80% of the wealth would pay 80% of the taxes. How is that regressive?

    The current progressive tax system is fundamentally designed to tax discretionary income.
    I was responding to Ptifs hypothetical quesion of what I thought would be fair.

    The reason 47% of the people pay no federal income taxes (aside from the fact that they pay a much higher percentage of their income than the wealthy on other taxes) is that 47% of the US population have little to no discretionary income.
    According to the OMB, the tax records show the percentage of people who pay no federal taxes is 10%. By my system that portion of people, since they have little to no income, would pay little to no taxes.
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Excellent information on your site there Ptif that you once again did not read. Your article documents that: Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28% in addition to providing more business deductions. Then he raised the SS tax, which is more of a hardship for the middle class because of a cap for the rich. And even still he spent far more than he raised taxes for the middle class. Look at the charts there on the site you linked. Higher spending than revenues equals debt, and Reagan hit the historic high mark in debt.

    So you pay more taxes thanks to Reagan/Bush tax policy and the super rich people pay less.
    Nice to ignore the highest tax increase in peacetime was Reagan. Say what you want but he fixed lots of what Carter screwed up and put people back to work.

    Today we have a big spender and he has not put people back to work

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It should be proportional to your total net worth. The exact percentage can only be accurately determined after wasteful spending is cut to determine the revenue needed to pay our bills. Otherwise, you get the mammoth debt that Reagan and Bush brought us.
    So cutting spending does not matter to you just make the rich pay until they are broke

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So cutting spending does not matter to you just make the rich pay until they are broke

    What part of, "after wasteful spending is cut," do you not understand?
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It should be proportional to your total net worth. The exact percentage can only be accurately determined after wasteful spending is cut to determine the revenue needed to pay our bills. Otherwise, you get the mammoth debt that Reagan and Bush brought us.
    You say that, as if Obama hasn't spent more money than all the other presidents in history...combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You say that, as if Obama hasn't spent more money than all the other presidents in history...combined.
    So did Bush before him. I agree we are spending too much and big cuts need to be made. But that is only part of the problem. We are still in recovery from one of the worst recessions in history, and we continue to reduce our revenue by continuing to provide the tax cuts to the wealthy. Same mistake Reagan and Bush made. Unless you have enough revenue to pay your bills you are always going to have debt.

    Reagan and Bush both increased spending and reduced revenues. Obama has proposed reducing the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower, and increasing revenue by eliminating the tax cuts for the wealthy. That makes more sense to me if the goal is to reduce our National debt.
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So did Bush before him. I agree we are spending too much and big cuts need to be made. But that is only part of the problem. We are still in recovery from one of the worst recessions in history, and we continue to reduce our revenue by continuing to provide the tax cuts to the wealthy. Same mistake Reagan and Bush made. Unless you have enough revenue to pay your bills you are always going to have debt.

    Reagan and Bush both increased spending and reduced revenues. Obama has proposed reducing the percentage of spending back to the days of Eisenhower, and increasing revenue by eliminating the tax cuts for the wealthy. That makes more sense to me if the goal is to reduce our National debt.
    No doubt. Conservatives seem to forget that spending and income are tied together. You can decrease spending all you want, but if your revenues come up short, it doesn't really matter. Increasing revenue is so easy and would have little to no affect on 95% of Americans.

    The bigger question: Why do poor republicans defend overpaid and undertaxed jobs? I have gotten them to admit there are many over paid jobs (grossly overpaid). I gotten them to admit that the tax rate on them is around 17% (not including the nontaxable hidden income)! So they cannot deny that there are people out there who make far too much money and then get too keep too much of it.

    How much extra revenue could be attained from these people? I am not sure a number could be put on it, since it would likely be extremely high and it would include these hidden monies (in derivatives and off shore accounts).

    Of course, if we tax those people... bad things might happen? I think that's the gist of the republican argument.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    No doubt. Conservatives seem to forget that spending and income are tied together. You can decrease spending all you want, but if your revenues come up short, it doesn't really matter. Increasing revenue is so easy and would have little to no affect on 95% of Americans.

    The bigger question: Why do poor republicans defend overpaid and undertaxed jobs? I have gotten them to admit there are many over paid jobs (grossly overpaid). I gotten them to admit that the tax rate on them is around 17% (not including the nontaxable hidden income)! So they cannot deny that there are people out there who make far too much money and then get too keep too much of it.

    How much extra revenue could be attained from these people? I am not sure a number could be put on it, since it would likely be extremely high and it would include these hidden monies (in derivatives and off shore accounts).

    Of course, if we tax those people... bad things might happen? I think that's the gist of the republican argument.

    Yes, that phenomonon has always been a mystery to me as well. In Virginia there is a term for it however, trailer park Republican.

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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