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Thread: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The class war began when Reagan/Bush shifted the funding of America more to the middle class and our National debt.
    That is total BS. The bottom 50% pay less than 3% of taxes


    National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You didn't acually read more than the headline of your article did you? It goes on to say:

    "Neither one of those ideas is true. They rely on a cleverly selective reading of the facts. So does the 47 percent number."

    "The 47 percent number is not wrong. The stimulus programs of the last two years — the first one signed by President George W. Bush, the second and larger one by President Obama — have increased the number of households that receive enough of a tax credit to wipe out their federal income tax liability.

    But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important. Income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too.

    Even if the discussion is restricted to federal taxes (for which the statistics are better), a vast majority of households end up paying federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data suggests that, at most, about 10 percent of all households pay no net federal taxes. The number 10 is obviously a lot smaller than 47."

    Wrong 38% according to one of your favorite sources


    FactCheck.org: Do 40 percent of Americans pay no taxes?


    About 38 percent of households have zero or negative income tax liability, but they pay other federal taxes.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Tell me what percent of income should all people pay?
    I think it would be fair to tax everyone an equal percentage of all their income, with no deductions or loopholes, and that includes the SS/Medicaid caps.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The increase in total debt during Reaganís two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined. From 1983 through 1985, with a Republican Senate, the debt was increasing at over 17% per year. While Mr. Reagan was in office this nationís debt went from just under 1 trillion dollars to over 2.6 trillion dollars, a 200% increase. The sad part about this increase is that it was not to educate our children, or to improve our infrastructure, or to help the poor, or even to finance a war. Reaganís enormous increase in the national debt was not to pay for any noble cause at all; his primary unapologetic goal was to pad the pockets of the rich. The huge national debt we have today is a living legacy to his failed Neo-Conservative economic policies. Reaganís legacy is a heavy financial weight that continues to apply an unrelenting drag on this nationís economic resources."

    "debt has been on a steady incline ever since the Reagan presidency."

    "If you look at the 60+ year record of debt since the end of WWII, starting with Trumanís term, the difference between the two partiesí contributions to our national debt level change considerably. Since 1946, Democratic presidents increased the national debt an average of only 3.2% per year. The Republican presidents stay at an average increase of 9.2% per year. Republican Presidents out borrowed and spent Democratic presidents by a three to one ratio. Putting that in very real terms; for every dollar a Democratic president has raised the national debt in the past 63 years Republican presidents have raised the debt by $2.84"

    United Stated National Debt
    All done with the spend crazy democrat congress. Remember Reagan built up a military and fixed what Carter screwed up

    I notice you ignore the debt before Reagan






    Ronald Reagan's Military Buildup




    ESR | July 30, 2001 | Jimmy Carter: Friend to America's enemies, enemy to America's friends


    The Carter Administration, 1977-1980, as a matter of routine, sold out our allies and aided our enemies. His actions condemned nations to left-wing tyranny, Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship, and war. His policies hurt America's economy, weakened our military, and encouraged the "malaise" that he famously referred to. With the election of Ronald Reagan, America rejected the malaise and began to pull itself out from the rubble. Following is a brief revisiting of the Carter foreign policy.
    Last edited by ptif219; 02-18-11 at 07:01 PM.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think it would be fair to tax everyone an equal percentage of all their income, with no deductions or loopholes, and that includes the SS/Medicaid caps.
    How much and what should it be limited to?

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    All done with the spend crazy democrat congress.
    Nope, it was done with the spend crazy Republican Congress that was in power for his first 6 years when most of it occurred.

    Remember Reagan built up a military.
    Yes, he increased spending to build up the military which didn't need building up and provided tax cuts for the rich all by adding it to the debt! I thought the conservative goal was to reduce spending rather than increasing debt?

    I notice you ignore the debt before Reagan.
    I didn't ignore it, in fact I added bold emphasis. Here it is again, "The increase in total debt during Reagan’s two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined."
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-18-11 at 07:28 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    How much and what should it be limited to?
    I don't understand what you are asking. Do you mean what percentage? The process should be to cut the waste from spending as the two parties can agree on and then set tax rates equitably so there is enough revenue to begin paying down the National Debt while still having enough left to pay the bills.

    Don't know what you mean by, "limited to"?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, it was done with the spend crazy Republican Congress that was in power for his first 6 years when most of it occurred.



    Yes, he increased spending to build up the military which didn't need building up and provided tax cuts for the rich all by adding it to the debt! I thought the conservative goal was to reduce spending rather than increasing debt?



    I didn't ignore it, in fact I added bold emphasis. Here it is again, "The increase in total debt during Reagan’s two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined."
    You ignore Reagans tax hikes

    Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010

    Reagan was certainly a tax cutter legislatively, emotionally and ideologically. But for a variety of political reasons, it was hard for him to ignore the cost of his tax cuts," said tax historian Joseph Thorndike.

    Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together "constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime," Thorndike said.

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't understand what you are asking. Do you mean what percentage? The process should be to cut the waste from spending as the two parties can agree on and then set tax rates equitably so there is enough revenue to begin paying down the National Debt while still having enough left to pay the bills.

    Don't know what you mean by, "limited to"?
    What should be the highest percent of income one should have to pay

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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think it would be fair to tax everyone an equal percentage of all their income, with no deductions or loopholes, and that includes the SS/Medicaid caps.
    That is actually not very practical. Are you suggesting that you tax the gross receipts of small business owners? That isn't fair. So if you don't, you bring deductions to the table.

    This is actually the most regressive way to do this, as believe it or not, in the current tax schema exempt income (deductions, credits, and exemptions) is a much higher percentage of income amongst lower income tax payers than higher income tax payers.

    The current progressive tax system is fundamentally designed to tax discretionary income. The reason 47% of the people pay no federal income taxes (aside from the fact that they pay a much higher percentage of their income than the wealthy on other taxes) is that 47% of the US population have little to no discretionary income.

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