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Thread: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You mean the part where 40% pay no taxes
    he is clueless-the top 5 percent pay more actual federal tax dollars (income and death taxes) than the other 95%

    and even he cannot pretend that the top 5% USE more of the government services than the other 95%



  2. #132
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Does it look like I decide? No, the "free market" supposedly does - whatever that means. This free market God is someone that I'd love to meet someday. He/she clearly makes a lot of weird decisions. I am still unsure about his/her infallibility.



    Well, unfair this unfair that. I am less of a whiner than you might think. I am not crying, I am on a board that was developed for debating and I am doing just that. You can call it whining, but I would say it is trying to change a flawed system.

    People said the same thing about their indentured servants 300 years ago. Why were they whining about being oppressed and forced into underpaid/unpaid work and bad conditions with continual broken promises of freedom. Just like the influx of the Irish, people called them dirty illegal immigrants who did not deserve to live here - now its Latinos. The truth is times are always changing and there is always one group kicking and screaming as they get dragged along into the future.

    You can kick and scream or you can be productive in the progression of human history.
    to me progress is a person evolving to become less dependent not more dependent on others



  3. #133
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    to me progress is a person evolving to become less dependent not more dependent on others
    If they got paid more would they not be less dependent?

  4. #134
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    If they got paid more would they not be less dependent?
    if they made themselves more valuable that is true
    giving someone money to make them less dependent is self defeating.

    if we gave someone with no HS diploma and no skills the same pay as a Harvard Law Review graduate or a Summa from Johns Hopkins medical school I bet we'd have alot less people busting their balls to get through demanding professional schools



  5. #135
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Right, but you have to understand the idea of someone's worth is also subjective. They are paid a subjective salary, taxed a subjective amount, etc. So the amount of money an individual has does not necessarily define that individual or make them any less hardworking.

    Pay them more and they can afford it and then all of the sudden they aren't bums anymore. Have you seen teacher's salaries recently?

    They can't afford much if anything at all... do you think they don't deserve a good life as much as anyone else? What determines someone's worth?
    Teacher's salaries are an excellent example:

    "In 2009, the worst economic year for working people since the Great Depression, the top 25 hedge fund managers walked off with an average of $1 billion each. With the money those 25 people "earned," we could have hired 658,000 entry level teachers. (They make about $38,000 a year, including benefits."
    Les Leopold: Why Are 25 Hedge Fund Managers Worth 658,000 Teachers?

    Economist Paul Krugman describes what he sees as a return to the Glided Age:

    "Income inequality — which began rising at the same time that modern conservatism began gaining political power — is now fully back to Gilded Age levels.

    Consider a head-to-head comparison. We know what John D. Rockefeller, the richest man in Gilded Age America, made in 1894, because in 1895 he had to pay income taxes. (The next year, the Supreme Court declared the income tax unconstitutional.) His return declared an income of $1.25 million, almost 7,000 times the average per capita income in the United States at the time.

    But that makes him a mere piker by modern standards. Last year, according to Institutional Investor’s Alpha magazine, James Simons, a hedge fund manager, took home $1.7 billion, more than 38,000 times the average income. Two other hedge fund managers also made more than $1 billion, and the top 25 combined made $14 billion.

    How much is $14 billion? It’s more than it would cost to provide health care for a year to eight million children — the number of children in America who, unlike children in any other advanced country, don’t have health insurance.

    The hedge fund billionaires are simply extreme examples of a much bigger phenomenon: every available measure of income concentration shows that we’ve gone back to levels of inequality not seen since the 1920s."
    Krugman on the New Gilded Age naked capitalism
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-18-11 at 12:54 AM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Teacher's salaries are an excellent example:

    "In 2009, the worst economic year for working people since the Great Depression, the top 25 hedge fund managers walked off with an average of $1 billion each. With the money those 25 people "earned," we could have hired 658,000 entry level teachers. (They make about $38,000 a year, including benefits."
    Les Leopold: Why Are 25 Hedge Fund Managers Worth 658,000 Teachers?

    Economist Paul Krugman describes what he sees as a return to the Glided Age:

    "Income inequality — which began rising at the same time that modern conservatism began gaining political power — is now fully back to Gilded Age levels.
    Consider a head-to-head comparison. We know what John D. Rockefeller, the richest man in Gilded Age America, made in 1894, because in 1895 he had to pay income taxes. (The next year, the Supreme Court declared the income tax unconstitutional.) His return declared an income of $1.25 million, almost 7,000 times the average per capita income in the United States at the time.

    But that makes him a mere piker by modern standards. Last year, according to Institutional Investor’s Alpha magazine, James Simons, a hedge fund manager, took home $1.7 billion, more than 38,000 times the average income. Two other hedge fund managers also made more than $1 billion, and the top 25 combined made $14 billion.
    How much is $14 billion? It’s more than it would cost to provide health care for a year to eight million children — the number of children in America who, unlike children in any other advanced country, don’t have health insurance.

    The hedge fund billionaires are simply extreme examples of a much bigger phenomenon: every available measure of income concentration shows that we’ve gone back to levels of inequality not seen since the 1920s."
    Krugman on the New Gilded Age naked capitalism
    I wonder how much Krugman gets paid to do nothing much more than put on paper his stream on consciousness.

  7. #137
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if they made themselves more valuable that is true
    giving someone money to make them less dependent is self defeating.

    if we gave someone with no HS diploma and no skills the same pay as a Harvard Law Review graduate or a Summa from Johns Hopkins medical school I bet we'd have alot less people busting their balls to get through demanding professional schools
    Who or what assigns value? The free market? You since you support this "idea"? What is the free market? How exactly does it decide?

    Teachers need to make themselves more valuable? Again, these are subjective things that you talk about like they are fact. Prove to me that one job is worth more than another and I will find someone who disagrees.

    Is the Vice President of Sales in the North East of a major corporation more valuable than a heart surgeon who works in a local hospital? You tell me.

  8. #138
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I wonder how much Krugman gets paid to do nothing much more than put on paper his stream on consciousness.
    I wonder if you have any facts to counter the one's the award winning economist cites.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #139
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Who or what assigns value? The free market? You since you support this "idea"? What is the free market? How exactly does it decide?

    Teachers need to make themselves more valuable? Again, these are subjective things that you talk about like they are fact. Prove to me that one job is worth more than another and I will find someone who disagrees.

    Is the Vice President of Sales in the North East of a major corporation more valuable than a heart surgeon who works in a local hospital? You tell me.
    So put away the subjective things and look towrad the objective measures. One might make more money. The other gets to go home at the day of his/her day. One gets to hold an annointed place in the community the other is a corporate manager who people think makes too much. Money is not the only measure of what you get out of a job.

  10. #140
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    Re: Obama budget resurrects rejected tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    If they got paid more would they not be less dependent?
    The money has to come from somewhere.

    I think that's the disconnect with Leftists. Ya'll think money grows on trees and it's just sitting there, waiting to be picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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