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Thread: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

  1. #21
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And that's fine...for the United States. It's not so good for fledgling democracies, especially if they have a history of authoritarianism.



    I see no reason to believe that having a president versus having a parliament is a cultural phenomenon, or that Egypt in particular is better able to express the will of the people through one rather than the other. However, there is plenty of reason to believe that the probability of making a successful transition from autocracy to democracy is much better with a parliamentary system.
    Differs with the country. Taiwan and South Korea both have Presidential systems and while both are flawed, they are also relatively stable considering that both are relatively young democracies. But yes, the demographics in Egypt are significantly different from those of South Korea and Taiwan...

    I am not a cookie-cutter democracy kind of guy...
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    It's good if they get ideas from the US constitution, my country did, and our system is one of the best in the world (that's non-biased, I swear). But they should also look at their own needs, it shouldn't just be a clone, they need to work a constitution to suit their own needs. And a parliamentary system is better. (another non-biased assessment)
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Why is that so strange when Islam has similar roots to Christianity?
    Of course there is no discourse whatsoever between, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Ask any Muslim if they accept Jesus as the Messiah of prophecy, nope...there is no anti-Christ doctrine propagated by Islam at all. Blackstone, the author of Blackstone commentaries on law was never quoted as such, "The belief of a future state of rewards and punishments, the entertaining just ideas of main attributes of the Supreme Being, and a firm persuasion that He superintends and will finally compensate every action of human life (all which are revealed in the doctrines of our Savior, Christ), these are the grand foundations of all judicial oaths; which call God to witness the truth of those facts which perhaps may be only known to Him and the party attesting;"

    Of course what Sir William Blackstone is referencing is the traditional custom in the Judiciary of swearing an oath before God while placing a hand on the Holy Bible before testimony in the Court Room. I'm sure no Muslim will find swearing an oath on the Holy Scriptures to remain loyal to their constitution to be offensive whatsoever.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-14-11 at 01:29 AM.

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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Differs with the country. Taiwan and South Korea both have Presidential systems and while both are flawed, they are also relatively stable considering that both are relatively young democracies.
    Yes, but that's just looking at the lucky few in hindsight. History is littered with far more examples of presidents than prime ministers who became dictators.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai
    But yes, the demographics in Egypt are significantly different from those of South Korea and Taiwan...
    I am not a cookie-cutter democracy kind of guy...
    As far as I can tell, there's no clear reason why presidentialism would be better suited for certain cultures/demographics than others, so I would rather see Egypt go with the odds and adopt a parliamentary system. It's true that no country should adopt a "cookie-cutter democracy" and will need to adjust the exact structure of government to its own needs...but I do think that most should go with a system that has demonstrated a high probability of success rather than one that has demonstrated a high probability of failure, absent a compelling reason to do otherwise.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-14-11 at 01:30 AM.
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Of course there is no discourse whatsoever between, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Ask any Muslim if they accept Jesus as the Messiah of prophecy, nope...there is no anti-Christ doctrine propagated by Islam at all.
    Why don't you ask a Jew what they think of Jesus, they have a less favourable view of him the Muslims, Muslims at leats accept him as a prophet, Jews just think he was a normal bloke.
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, but that's just looking at the lucky few in hindsight. History is littered with far more examples of presidents than prime ministers who became dictators.
    Perhaps in absolute numbers... but Hitler (Chancellor in Germany is akin to a PM) is the 800-pount gorilla on the parliamentary back...

    As far as I can tell, there's no clear reason why presidentialism would be better suited for certain cultures/demographics than others, so I would rather see Egypt go with the odds and adopt a parliamentary system. It's true that no country should adopt a "cookie-cutter democracy" and will need to adjust the exact structure of government to its own needs...but I do think that most should go with a system that has demonstrated a high probability of success rather than one that has demonstrated a high probability of failure, absent a compelling reason to do otherwise.
    I do think demographics matter. Korea is a highly homogenous society, much more so than Taiwan's but even Taiwan's is more homogenous than Egypt's. U.S. is an exception and as such, its system does not have to be exported in total around the world. Taiwan's system combines elements of the American system and traditional Chinese ideas from a man who received an American education and is highly revered here.

    perhaps I am rambling, but in Egypt, with so many groups, there needs to be a strong system that can represent those groups. The U.S. DOES have this with its Congress, but a winner-take-all presidential system could cause problems amongst minority groups unless they feel they have representation... it really depends on how Egypt does it. Iraq really made some mistakes. A federal system (people also forget this element in a governmental structure) would have far better served Iraq. I don't know if it would apply to Egypt however. IN Iraq, the three major groups are generally geographically distinct. Anyone more familiar with Egypt's demographics... is this the care there? I really don't know...
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Ask any Muslim if they accept Jesus as the Messiah of prophecy, nope...
    I take it that you are not aware a core tenet of the Islamic faith is, in fact, that Jesus is the Messiah.

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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    1. It is quite rare for a government to last even as long as 18 months. -- 50 governments since WWII is hardly stable...
    2. The notion that the LDP dominated government is very misleading as there are many factions within the LDP that have been vying for power, resulting in a highly unstable system in the country.
    Compared with the various factions within the Democratic party the Republican party of the US?

    Overall up untill the last decade or so Japans government and its policies have been very stable with the MITI being a dominate force regarding the economy. In comparison to any other democracy I cant think of a country that has been more stable politically from 1950 to 2000
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I take it that you are not aware a core tenet of the Islamic faith is, in fact, that Jesus is the Messiah.

    To some folks? This is like saying well sure Jim Jones believed in Jesus too.
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    Re: Founding Fathers Visiting Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It works in some countries, but Italy and Japan, among others, are notably unstable and regulary change governments. Even England has a rather tricky coalition government right now that has the potential to cause problems there as the term goes on...
    Take note of the superior socialism that England has been passing into law lately.
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