• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A Ridiculous California Court Ruling: Zip Codes are Private

Cold Highway

Cold Highway

Dispenser of Negativity
DP Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
9,595
Reaction score
2,739
Location
Newburgh, New York and World 8: Dark Land
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
California resident Jessica Pineda sued Williams Sonoma in 2008 for invasion of privacy and violation of the Song-Beverly Credit Card Act, after she was asked to hand over her zip code in one of their San Mateo stores. She alleged that, with her name, credit card number and zip code, the store was able to track down her home address and then use that to market to her and to sell her info to other businesses. A trial court and appeals court disagreed with her, but the California Supreme Court issued its decision yesterday saying, yes, a zip code is “personally identifiable information.”
Click to expand...

Being in Retail Management I deal with this **** regularly. Its mindboggling sometimes how so many people think its easier to bitch to the state than to just choose another businesses to shop at. It's not just name and address policies like these it's all sorts of issues; gambling, the drug war, gay marriage (somewhat), the entertainment industry etc. One excuse I got from someone that it was Big Brother. Now I work for a private company, not the government (I view government pay as poison). Big Brother is a government concept, not a private company because with a private business you can walk away and take your business elsewhere, not so easy with the state.

A Ridiculous California Court Ruling: Zip Codes are Private - Kashmir Hill - The Not-So Private Parts - Forbes
 
Perhaps I am mistaken but isn't it a good thing that the government is trying to protect your private information?
 
CriticalThought said:
Perhaps I am mistaken but isn't it a good thing that the government is trying to protect your private information?
Click to expand...

The thing is, that you dont have to do business with a particular retailer if you dont agree with its policies. This is government meddling in private affairs.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
The thing is, that you dont have to do business with a particular retailer if you dont agree with its policies. This is government meddling in private affairs.
Click to expand...

But it sounds like she was unaware that the business was going to sell her private information before she gave them her zip code. Am I wrong?
 
CriticalThought said:
But it sounds like she was unaware that the business was going to sell her private information before she gave them her zip code. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Ignorance isn't an excuse, she simply could've asked what the policy was and also asked to be taken off the mailing list.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Ignorance isn't an excuse, she simply could've asked what the policy was and also asked to be taken off the mailing list.
Click to expand...

So everywhere you do business you ask about their privacy of information policy?

I'm all for personal accountability but at a certain point I think it is justifiable that some of how private information should be protected.
 
CriticalThought said:
So everywhere you do business you ask about their privacy of information policy?

I'm all for personal accountability but at a certain point I think it is justifiable that some of how private information should be protected.
Click to expand...

Me personally, no but I can look it up if need be. If I dont like a said business' policy than I can stop doing business with them. People are becoming to quickly to just run to the government when they see something they dont like.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Me personally, no but I can look it up if need be. If I dont like a said business' policy than I can stop doing business with them. People are becoming to quickly to just run to the government when they see something they dont like.
Click to expand...

I dunno. I think I would be pretty pissed if a business sold my private information to other businesses without my knowledge or consent.
 
Private businesses can be just as overbearing and tyrannical as government and should be subject to the same rules that protect us from the government.

Our personal information should not be for sale.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Private businesses can be just as overbearing and tyrannical as government and should be subject to the same rules that protect us from the government.

Our personal information should not be for sale.
Click to expand...

1) I just looked in a Houston white pages. Everybody who is listed has his or her address, along with zip code, there too. What's so private about a zip code? If it was a SS number, that would be different, but it's just a friggin' zip code.

2) Some phone books don't have zip codes listed, but addresses are. You can google map the address and get the zip code.

3) The California Supreme Court, along with the 9th Circus there, has better things to do with the taxpayer money than harass businesses in that state.

4) On every credit application I have ever turned in, I have always read it before I signed it. Sounds just like what this lady should have done. Once it's signed, the terms on it are legally binding, as the application is then essentially a contract. I don't know about anybody else, but I ALWAYS read a contract before I sign it. If information is sold to third parties, it is always disclosed, as that is the law. If she didn't like it, she should have just gone somewhere else to do business. But the court has no business to declare a signed contract invalid.

If this case makes it to the Supreme Court, the majority decision will be to reverse the California decision, and have a good laugh in closed chambers. LOL.
 
Last edited:
chevydriver1123 said:
Being in Retail Management I deal with this **** regularly. Its mindboggling sometimes how so many people think its easier to bitch to the state than to just choose another businesses to shop at. It's not just name and address policies like these it's all sorts of issues; gambling, the drug war, gay marriage (somewhat), the entertainment industry etc. One excuse I got from someone that it was Big Brother. Now I work for a private company, not the government (I view government pay as poison). Big Brother is a government concept, not a private company because with a private business you can walk away and take your business elsewhere, not so easy with the state.

A Ridiculous California Court Ruling: Zip Codes are Private - Kashmir Hill - The Not-So Private Parts - Forbes
Click to expand...


I think by giving my zip at check-out, is how I've received good coupons before.:shrug:
Maybe I should sue?:tongue4:
 
danarhea said:
1) I just looked in a Houston white pages. Everybody who is listed has his or her address, along with zip code, there too. What's so private about a zip code? If it was a SS number, that would be different, but it's just a friggin' zip code.
Click to expand...

I'm unlisted. Furthermore, anybody could use my credit card at a gas pump if they have the zip code of my mailing address.
 
This ruling is addressing a real problem with a bad solution. The zipcode is irrelevant, the key issue is businesses going around selling your information to others. The proper solution would be to prevent anyone from selling your data to anyone unless given explicit authorization in a contract.
 
rathi said:
This ruling is addressing a real problem with a bad solution. The zipcode is irrelevant, the key issue is businesses going around selling your information to others. The proper solution would be to prevent anyone from selling your data to anyone unless given explicit authorization in a contract.
Click to expand...

A signed credit application IS a contract.
 
A signed credit application IS a contract.
Click to expand...

The case is about a women buying stuff at Williams Sonoma what does that have to do with filling out a credit application?
 
rathi said:
The case is about a women buying stuff at Williams Sonoma what does that have to do with filling out a credit application?
Click to expand...

Because she got it on credit. To get the credit card, she had to fill out an application. A signed application for credit IS, under the law, a contract. If it is disclosed on the signed application (now a contract), as required by law, that information about you may be given to third parties, there is not a thing she can do. Like I said before, this decision will be reversed.
 
Last edited:
danarhea said:
Because she got it on credit. To get the credit card, she had to fill out an application. A signed application for credit IS, under the law, a contract. If it is disclosed on the signed application (now a contract), as required by law, that information about you may be given to third parties, there is not a thing she can do. Like I said before, this decision will be reversed.
Click to expand...

I don't see any indication that this was her applying for a credit card. I don't know how many places where you can apply for a credit card at the checkout.

From the blog cited in the OP.

California resident Jessica Pineda sued Williams Sonoma in 2008 for invasion of privacy and violation of the Song-Beverly Credit Card Act, after she was asked to hand over her zip code in one of their San Mateo stores. She alleged that, with her name, credit card number and zip code, the store was able to track down her home address and then use that to market to her and to sell her info to other businesses. A trial court and appeals court disagreed with her, but the California Supreme Court issued its decision yesterday saying, yes, a zip code is “personally identifiable information.”
Click to expand...

What the blog does NOT make clear is the context in which she was being asked her zip code. If it was at the checkout while making a purchase, then there is no reason for requiring a zip code. A retailer may ask (in such an instance) but the customer may refuse...
 
CriticalThought said:
Perhaps I am mistaken but isn't it a good thing that the government is trying to protect your private information?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I also like the idea of telling talking to the manager and telling him/her in a polite way why they can GFT and that I'll be taking my business elsewhere unless they drop the requirement. I'd also report it to the credit card company.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
The thing is, that you dont have to do business with a particular retailer if you dont agree with its policies. This is government meddling in private affairs.
Click to expand...

In California it's not so simple to just go somewhere else, because virtually every business in California does it. It is an invasion of privacy, personal information that the retailer has no right to. I agree with the court ruling.
 
danarhea said:
1) I just looked in a Houston white pages. Everybody who is listed has his or her address, along with zip code, there too. What's so private about a zip code? If it was a SS number, that would be different, but it's just a friggin' zip code.

2) Some phone books don't have zip codes listed, but addresses are. You can google map the address and get the zip code.

3) The California Supreme Court, along with the 9th Circus there, has better things to do with the taxpayer money than harass businesses in that state.

4) On every credit application I have ever turned in, I have always read it before I signed it. Sounds just like what this lady should have done. Once it's signed, the terms on it are legally binding, as the application is then essentially a contract. I don't know about anybody else, but I ALWAYS read a contract before I sign it. If information is sold to third parties, it is always disclosed, as that is the law. If she didn't like it, she should have just gone somewhere else to do business. But the court has no business to declare a signed contract invalid.

If this case makes it to the Supreme Court, the majority decision will be to reverse the California decision, and have a good laugh in closed chambers. LOL.
Click to expand...

It's the store that asked for the zip code not her credit card company.
 
danarhea said:
A signed credit application IS a contract.
Click to expand...

Are you still on this? Don't you get it, the store was selling the data, NOT the credit card company!
 
If I get asked for my phone number at a checkout, I tell them it's unlisted. IF I get asked for my zip code, I politely decline.

Not once have I been refused service for doing so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom