View Poll Results: Who represents Barry Goldwater Conservatism better?

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  • Ron Paul

    4 44.44%
  • Young Americans for Freedom

    0 0%
  • Sarah Palin

    2 22.22%
  • Dennis Kucinich (This answer is for those who don't have a clue)

    3 33.33%
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Thread: YAF Expels Ron Paul

  1. #21
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So stretching our military thin across the world and making new enemies is how we improve national security?
    Absolutely not.

    Similarly reducing our forces world wide to where we have almost no strategic ability to defend ourselves or aid our allies abroad due to sufficient bases of operations is ALSO not helpful to our national security.

    There's a middle ground here that sadly neither side will reach because they refuse to acknowledge that the other side has somewhat of a point.

  2. #22
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely not.

    Similarly reducing our forces world wide to where we have almost no strategic ability to defend ourselves or aid our allies abroad due to sufficient bases of operations is ALSO not helpful to our national security.

    There's a middle ground here that sadly neither side will reach because they refuse to acknowledge that the other side has somewhat of a point.
    But that's the choice isn't it? A Ron Paul says, kill the MIC, close the foreign bases, increase homeland defense, stop projecting power across the world. That's how we used to operate - and there were 2 world wars that occurred in the 20th century. Then the U.N. was formed and the U.S. stepped up and basically because the world's police force. By pulling away from that model, it (IMHO) increases the chances of yet another world war sometime in the next 20-50 years. I'm not against closing bases... just not all of them. And if the U.S. isn't the cop, then some other country(s) should. Paul isn't an isolationist, but he believes in a military that's behind glass - only to be broken in case of emergency. It's a very romantic thought. Then again, I can't see more money, more bases and more use of our military. Maybe there's a compromise... cut the bases overseas by 50% and we'll move the remainders around depending on which despots are acting up.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #23
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    But that's the choice isn't it?
    What's the choice? Have our forces stretched thin to all reaches of the world or have absolutely no foreign bases?

    No, that's not the choice. Its not an "A" or "B" question with only two possible solutions. Your later portions of the post speaks to the right methodology. Work with generals and find out what Bases are of the utmost importance with regards to the ability to deploy forces in defense of our allies or in defense of our nation should it happen. I don't believe that in general having a base in central europe, in the middle east, in the pacific, and in south america would be a bad thing. I actually think its a very needed thing. I don't believe though we need dozens of military bases all throughout the world on top of our military presence in many nations. As I said, a middle ground.

    Similarly, I don't think in general we need to be acting as the world's police. At the same time, I don't think we can believably close our eyes and go "lalalalala" to the world and what's going on in it, or its potential effect on us. The ironic thing about Ron Paul and his supporters going on and on and on about Blow Back is they ignore that there is ALSO blow back from not acting. They seem to routinely however ignore the fact that consequences could and can occur from refusing to act as well. I think we should be extremely restrained with our use of military force, and I'm of the mind that you use the military much like you use a gun...you only pull it out when you're resolute on killing if the need is there. But we should act at times, it is ignorant for us to assume that what happens in the world isn't going to have an effect on us just as much as it is ignorant to assume that our actions in the world won't have an effect on us.

  4. #24
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    What's the choice? Have our forces stretched thin to all reaches of the world or have absolutely no foreign bases?

    No, that's not the choice. Its not an "A" or "B" question with only two possible solutions. Your later portions of the post speaks to the right methodology. Work with generals and find out what Bases are of the utmost importance with regards to the ability to deploy forces in defense of our allies or in defense of our nation should it happen. I don't believe that in general having a base in central europe, in the middle east, in the pacific, and in south america would be a bad thing. I actually think its a very needed thing. I don't believe though we need dozens of military bases all throughout the world on top of our military presence in many nations. As I said, a middle ground.

    Similarly, I don't think in general we need to be acting as the world's police. At the same time, I don't think we can believably close our eyes and go "lalalalala" to the world and what's going on in it, or its potential effect on us. The ironic thing about Ron Paul and his supporters going on and on and on about Blow Back is they ignore that there is ALSO blow back from not acting. They seem to routinely however ignore the fact that consequences could and can occur from refusing to act as well. I think we should be extremely restrained with our use of military force, and I'm of the mind that you use the military much like you use a gun...you only pull it out when you're resolute on killing if the need is there. But we should act at times, it is ignorant for us to assume that what happens in the world isn't going to have an effect on us just as much as it is ignorant to assume that our actions in the world won't have an effect on us.
    So how then do we, the people, temper a view like Pauls and at the same time, temper the views of the MIC which makes billions on wars that we engage in? Do we elect a Ron Paul and shake it up? I don't think that will do anything --- I think the power shift has to come from the House and Senate and I'd suggest mostly the House. This is where the money is approved and appropriated. If we're going to take a middle ground view, we have to start replacing our representatives, which will take at a minimum 10-20 years for a multitude of reasons. Sure it'll help if the President or State Dept. or whomever is in the WH supports such cut backs, but as we see... the money, the re-elections, the benefits far outweigh something as paltry as debt, insolvency, budgets, etc. At least, that's my perception from a politicians point of view.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #25
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Just a quick note here. I see that Sarah Palin has voted for Dennis Kucinich 3 times in this poll.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think so. I think what happened was that the right-wing propaganda machine moved in and they really didn't allow much of his message to get out. The idea was to paint him as and extremist and someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Now they come running to him because it turns out he was right and people should have listened and now the "conservatives" fear for their political future.

    Conservatives....you can count on them as much as you can't count on the French in a fight. HAHAHAHA
    I strongly disagree. You can ALWAYS count on the French in a fight.... To drop their weapons and run, thus giving you an extra supply of said items.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  7. #27
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    Ironically, they should go ahead and kick Barry Goldwater Jr out of the group as well.

    If Barry Goldwater was still alive, they would boot him out. That man would see right though these crooked globalists.

  8. #28
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    Re: YAF Expels Ron Paul

    There’s a very good reason anyone with any skin in the game of the status quo—politician, commentator, or citizen—has to find it very difficult to take Paul seriously. That so many citizens and activists in the Tea Party movement are taking him seriously is scaring the establishment for good reason. Paul doesn’t just represent an opposition politician, he represents an absolute denial that “the system” makes any sense, has any justice, or is sustainable. It is this radical oppositionism that makes it so easy for standard issue pundits to just write his fans off as nuts and a bit scary.
    Ron Paul: Something is Happening and You Don't Know What It Is, Do You Mr. Right Wing? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

    Ah I love it
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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