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Rand Paul: End 'welfare' to Israel

Oh dont worry...I understand your mindset...any way at all to bash the Tea Party goals...ohmigid...its not been a full month, theres only 4 of them affiliated int he senate and they havent managed to undo 40-50 years of democrat and republican spending that has put us in a 14 trillion dollar hole...imagine that.

How much cuts are others proposing? FM...

My mindset is based on a decade of GOP control of congress and the fact that the deficit grew grew and grew some more and there was never any real cuts or attempts to fix the problem. And it is pretty much the same crowd that is in place today.
 
My mindset is based on a decade of GOP control of congress and the fact that the deficit grew grew and grew some more and there was never any real cuts or attempts to fix the problem. And it is pretty much the same crowd that is in place today.

Of course it is...heaven forbid you see both sides...because democrats havent added 4 trillion in the last few years...
 
Of course it is...heaven forbid you see both sides...because democrats havent added 4 trillion in the last few years...

Again, not true. Bush could just have vetoed anything that raised the debt.. but he did not.. he actually proposed most of the 4 trillion you claim are the "dems fault".

And that was on top of the 4 to 5 trillion he and his republican congress added to the debt in the 8 years of his presidency.. Like it or not, most of the debt the US has today is due to Republicans not living up to their own golden rule of "fiscal responsibility".

Reagan tripled the debt and Bush 2 doubled the debt he started with... and that is a fact that no amount of spin can change.
 
Again, not true. Bush could just have vetoed anything that raised the debt.. but he did not.. he actually proposed most of the 4 trillion you claim are the "dems fault".

And that was on top of the 4 to 5 trillion he and his republican congress added to the debt in the 8 years of his presidency.. Like it or not, most of the debt the US has today is due to Republicans not living up to their own golden rule of "fiscal responsibility".

Reagan tripled the debt and Bush 2 doubled the debt he started with... and that is a fact that no amount of spin can change.

And what has happened in the last 4 years since the democrats controlled the house and senate? And the last two?

nah...its just republicans. FM
 
It'd be nice if you could elaborate on that thought.

Israel is a technology hub and a valuable ally in terms of military technology. Africa is simply a drag on the Western world. It must be weened off the European/US tit if we ever want them to stop complaining about neocolonialism.
 
This thread may be somewhat controversial, but this isn't about abandoning Israel. If they are attacked, we have the capability to turn the nation that does so into a radioactive wasteland. But face it. Israel is a rich nation. Right now, we need the money more than they do. And beyond Israel, I like Paul's notion that we should be giving to America before giving to foreign nations. It's the American thing to do. We need to balance the budget, and as far as I am concerned, EVERYTHING is on the table, including money to nations that frankly don't need it.

Article is here.

I think we should end all foreign aid, with the exceptions of countries receiving aid from us for rebuilding from natural disasters or because the populace is starving... although unfortunately, even that foreign aid ends up in some rich despot's bank account and the populace is still starving. Didn't we just learn that Mubarak is the richest man on the damned planet, thanks to USA foreign aid that's now in his Swiss bank accounts?

We hand out money as if its jelly beans, and demand no accountability as to how its spent and who benefits from it. We just use it like lobbyists use campaign contributions... "Here, we'll give you 'aid' and you will (vote as we wish in the UN, give us access to your natural resources, let us eff over your population to enrich our own corporations)."

I'm sick of it. No more freaking aid to anyone on the planet unless half their country has been devastated by a natural disaster and we hire top-notch managers to account for how every penny is spent.
 
I'm sick of it. No more freaking aid to anyone on the planet unless half their country has been devastated by a natural disaster and we hire top-notch managers to account for how every penny is spent.

Now that made me laugh! Since when does accountability come into the picture when it comes to the US spending money anywhere? :)
 
Now that made me laugh! Since when does accountability come into the picture when it comes to the US spending money anywhere? :)

I think the general idea was for it to come into the picture.
 
And what has happened in the last 4 years since the democrats controlled the house and senate? And the last two?

nah...its just republicans. FM

Again...why did Bush not veto the spending increases? Oh no, he PROPOSED most of them!

It is easy to blame the Dems, but the Dems are NOT the bloody party of supposed fiscal responsibility.. that is the Republican Party. They are the ones touting it, and they are the ones that have run up the debt and deficit the most and were in control of either Congress or the White House or BOTH for the last 30 years .. 30 years where the debt went from under 1 trillion to 14 trillion... where was the fiscal responsibility party those 30 years?
 
Why stop with Israel? The U.S. supports/funds many dictators throughout the world and then overthrows Saddam Hussein to spread democracy. Our foreign policy seriously needs to change. We can't sustain our current policy.

As for Paul, at least some in Congress aren't bought and paid for...

I believe ALL funding to non-democratic countries should be cut off. However, while I wouldn't oppose cutting back on the actually amount of support for Israel, we shouldn't completely cut them off...

As for democracy, the U.S. is a rank hypocrite in so many instances. Support Kosovo while all but ignoring SADR, Somaliland and Taiwan, the last of which is undeniably a democracy and sending aid to countries like Egypt, the KSA and other dictatorships.... U.S. preaching on democracy should be taken with a grain of salt...
 
Exactly, and I see the accusations of being anti-Israel, and isolationist, dishonest as hell. I will state exactly what I believe, so that it cannot be taken out of context again:

1) Cut ALL foreign aid. This includes Israel, Europe, Africa, and everywhere else. America should aid it's own first. America first. Period.

Foreign aid is such a small percentage of the budget, this isn't going to help. Again, I agree with cutting aid to non-democratic regimes, but countries that are "friends" of the United States ought to be supported.

2) The cold war is over. We need to cut our military bases by at least half. There is no excuse to bust the budget, whether by excessive welfare programs for our citizens, or welfare to the military-industrial complex. Let's also include welfare for the banksters in this.

I would largely agree with pulling back from European bases, but in Asia, there is still a need for a robust American presence. This is still a pretty tense part of the world.

Budget cuts doesn't mean cut all programs which I don't like, but give the programs I like a pass. It means making hard choices over the whole spectrum, and trimming what we need to trim, in order to get to a point where we are once again fiscally responsible. THIS is what Rand Paul was talking about. We can't give away money that we desperately need ourselves. Did you know that, during the winter storm we just had, Texas ended up receiving foreign aid from Mexico, in the form of electricity? This is totally unacceptable. We need to take care of our own first, before we even begin to think about taking care of other nations. Foreign aid in better times? Sure. But these are not better times. It is time to trim the fat, and look after our own first, and as a voting citizen, this is what I demand from Barack O'Bummer and Joe Bite Me.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with the essense of this statement and we should take a serious look at overseas aid and military deployments, but a blanket elimination of them all without careful assessment is shortsighted...
 
Again...why did Bush not veto the spending increases? Oh no, he PROPOSED most of them!

It is easy to blame the Dems, but the Dems are NOT the bloody party of supposed fiscal responsibility.. that is the Republican Party. They are the ones touting it, and they are the ones that have run up the debt and deficit the most and were in control of either Congress or the White House or BOTH for the last 30 years .. 30 years where the debt went from under 1 trillion to 14 trillion... where was the fiscal responsibility party those 30 years?

You need a civics lesson on how the U.S. government works and spends money......

Lesson #1: The President can't spend a stinking dime of taxpayer money, only Congress can, and the last time I looked, Dems have controlled the House since 2006 and the Senate since 2008.
 
I think we should end all foreign aid, with the exceptions of countries receiving aid from us for rebuilding from natural disasters or because the populace is starving... although unfortunately, even that foreign aid ends up in some rich despot's bank account and the populace is still starving. Didn't we just learn that Mubarak is the richest man on the damned planet, thanks to USA foreign aid that's now in his Swiss bank accounts?

We hand out money as if its jelly beans, and demand no accountability as to how its spent and who benefits from it. We just use it like lobbyists use campaign contributions... "Here, we'll give you 'aid' and you will (vote as we wish in the UN, give us access to your natural resources, let us eff over your population to enrich our own corporations)."

I'm sick of it. No more freaking aid to anyone on the planet unless half their country has been devastated by a natural disaster and we hire top-notch managers to account for how every penny is spent.

Was it not too long ago that the press called Vladimir Putin the world's richest man? Please I doubt the acuracy of these claims that Mubarak is the world's wealthiest person in the world. Not a chance he is. He may have stolen a lot of money, but I still would not be placing him in any list of the world's wealthiest individuals.
 
Again...why did Bush not veto the spending increases? Oh no, he PROPOSED most of them!

It is easy to blame the Dems, but the Dems are NOT the bloody party of supposed fiscal responsibility.. that is the Republican Party. They are the ones touting it, and they are the ones that have run up the debt and deficit the most and were in control of either Congress or the White House or BOTH for the last 30 years .. 30 years where the debt went from under 1 trillion to 14 trillion... where was the fiscal responsibility party those 30 years?

You just continually and deliberatley miss **** on purpose...right? No one is blaming just the democrats. Ive said numerous times...Bush and the republicans lack of fiscal oversight is the reason I left the party back in 2003. You however maintain those partisan blinders than ONLY allow you to blame one side. Dont know what it is more...silly, or just plain pathetic.
 
You need a civics lesson on how the U.S. government works and spends money......

Lesson #1: The President can't spend a stinking dime of taxpayer money, only Congress can, and the last time I looked, Dems have controlled the House since 2006 and the Senate since 2008.

The president can veto. So if he does not like a bill he can veto it.
 
Rand Paul is one ballsy mother****er. That's all I'll say.

Not really, just another Rep desperate maneuver. We all know that the thousands of Jew activists and Senate won't go along with it, so he's just joining the rest in another delay tactic. I wonder what kind of trick the Reps will come up with next and how long they can keep it going? They're running out of popular issues...

ricksfolly
 
I think we should end all foreign aid, with the exceptions of countries receiving aid from us for rebuilding from natural disasters or because the populace is starving...

Likely an unpopular view, but if it comes down to extreme foreign aid postures, I would suggest that the foreign aid be dispensed strictly with respect to national interests, not other matters that have no connection to the national interest. Of course, I do not favor extreme positions on foreign aid. I am comfortable with providing emergency assistance for natural disasters/humanitarian catastrophes.

From a larger budget perspective, I believe all items of the budget should regularly be scrutinized to determine the relative value that they provide, measure outcomes vs. expectations, etc. Value added (current and future) and concrete outcomes should be among the considerations in determining where investments will be made/expanded, expenditures sustained, and other expenditure/investment items reduced or eliminated. Mandatory spending programs, discretionary items, including national defense, and also tax rates/structure all should be examined as part of the overall budget exercise. Needless to say, one should be aware that the function of government is not merely economic/financial. There are social interests/objectives e.g., reduced poverty rate, among the broader range of responsibilities government performs. Tradeoffs, especially in this era of fiscal challenge, are inherent.

Finally, one cannot pretend that investments (expenditures that result in future value) can't be made in the present fiscal environment. Certain investments are vital.

Education is one example, even as better outcomes need to be emphasized. If the country falls behind in terms of education, the long-run losses from reduced productivity, innovation, and competitiveness will dwarf the short-term "savings" that might have been realized from paring such investments.

Energy is another. If the nation does not aggressively pursue investments aimed at broadening its energy supply/increasing conservation--and the bipartisan failure to do so continues despite bold campaign promises--the nation will only have less flexibility as competition for existing resources heats up, instability grips some of the volatile states in which such resources are disproportionately available, energy nationalism increases in some other states, etc. Already, one hears complaints about the rising gas price. In part, the gas price is rising because there are insufficient substitutes in the face of rising global demand for oil. And there are insufficient subsitutes, because the nation has yet to develop, much less pursue a credible energy policy and make meaningful investments aimed at broadening its energy supply. A policy of benign neglect deprives a nation of flexibility/choices to chart its own destiny and leaves nations "prisoners" of developments. Clearly, should prices reach more painful levels, policy makers will argue that the situation is "beyond the control" of the nation and "unavoidable." In reality, the great tragedy will be that those excuses had become reality only because, when the outcome was avoidable or could have been mitigated, the nation deliberately chose to maintain a comfortable policy of benign neglect. To date, the nation has forgotten each energy crisis (1973, 1978-79, 2008) and never made it a priority to reduce vulnerabilities that were exposed.
 
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Of course he can, but he can't spend a dime himself.

Because of the fact the president can veto any bill he doesn't like you still can't pen it all the house and senate. When the president signs the bill he is just as guilty as the senators and congressmen who voted yes for the bill.
 
You just continually and deliberatley miss **** on purpose...right? No one is blaming just the democrats. Ive said numerous times...Bush and the republicans lack of fiscal oversight is the reason I left the party back in 2003. You however maintain those partisan blinders than ONLY allow you to blame one side. Dont know what it is more...silly, or just plain pathetic.

Amen, brother. It is one of the TWO primary reasons I left the party at about the same time, as well... I once ran for office as a Republican, so I was not only a voter, but was an activist in the party and a delegate to several state conventions. I left due to my disastifaction in the party over this and the Revival Tent nature of the party.
 
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