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Thread: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

  1. #21
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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Allow me to repeat: BULL ****!!!!

    Any historical reading of vietnam shows we drop a ton of ordinace. We killed a lot of people. There was little humane about it. And it was useless. We had not adapted to a new type of warfare.
    It amazes me when people can even try and compare World War 2 to wars like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan...

    "Well we won that one"

    Yeah well it was a completely different kind of war. Conventional vs. Unconventional I.E. Geurilla/Insurgency vs. Tank battles in the fields of normandy against an opponent that was equal.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Allow me to repeat: BULL ****!!!!

    Any historical reading of vietnam shows we drop a ton of ordinace. We killed a lot of people. There was little humane about it. And it was useless. We had not adapted to a new type of warfare.
    And the most inhumane thing we did was leave, knowing full well the slaughter that would result in Cambodia as a result.

    Dropping ordinance is useless when there's no war plan in place.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    It amazes me when people can even try and compare World War 2 to wars like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan...

    "Well we won that one"

    Yeah well it was a completely different kind of war. Conventional vs. Unconventional I.E. Geurilla/Insurgency vs. Tank battles in the fields of normandy against an opponent that was equal.
    You can't fight a war with a goal like...."We must stop the spread of Communism."

    Yeah, okay, how? You go defeat the country you're at war with, that's how. You don't show up, drop a bunch of napalm bombs and then sit there and wait, and then leave because of demonstrations at Kent State back home. If that's all you've got, then you stay home in the first place.

    We left, and the real ugly stuff began. The Killing Fields.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    We left, and the real ugly stuff began. The Killing Fields.
    HAHAHA first of all, you never went to War with Cambodia officially, you were trying to destroy the outer reaches of the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

    Secondly I will remind you that America actually supported the Khmer Rouge at certain points and made sure that for a long time, they retained the official Cambodian seat at the United Nations after the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.

    You need to learn your history my friend.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    HAHAHA first of all, you never went to War with Cambodia officially, you were trying to destroy the outer reaches of the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

    Secondly I will remind you that America actually supported the Khmer Rouge at certain points and made sure that for a long time, they retained the official Cambodian seat at the United Nations after the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.

    You need to learn your history my friend.
    And Libya was named Head of the UN Security Council. Stop blaming the U.S. for supporting every rogue leader in the world. Canada and the rest of you do, too. The world is what it is.

    Save the history lesson nonsense. Ask yourself this....what would have happened had the United States just left Vietnam alone? How many Vietnamese would have been killed? Less? More? The same? Why is the United States so awful for trying to help some people in south Vietnam?

  6. #26
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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The is likely a list. We oversaw a war he wasn't prepared for to start with.
    His comment about going to war with the amry you have highlights this.
    ROTFLOL... You are now crapping an enormous load on Bill Clinton. Nice of you to admit that under Clinton's 8-years he neglected the military... which is typical of Libs.

    Thomas Sowell shreds Clinton in this 1999 article, and gives facts of how badly Clinton neglected the military.
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...,2287036&hl=en

    The military walked through Iraq and kicked ass. They got to Baghdad in 2 weeks. Now, when the German and Japanese were defeated, they didn't loot themselves and they didn't terrorize. Iraqi's did. OK, post ass-kicking things got tough for a while, BUT... if you know anything about war, if you are familiar with Clausewitz... you know war is rarely predictable.

    He had time to plan.
    They had a plan, and Gen. Franks created it. It's disingenuous to say they didn't have a plan. Pure hogwash.

    He was asked right after 9/11 to formulate a plan with Iraq.
    They had plans before Bush came to office. You think the military doesn't have plans of actions for different theatres? Oh my.

    He shoudl have been prepared. He should have argued against going in.
    He was, and if you read Woodward's book he documents Bush grilling CIA chief Tenet, and Tenet telling him it was "a slam dunk". ALL our allies believed Saddam had WMD, and Hans Blix believed he had and was lying... I've posted this stuff before. The Germans hid their fear of biological weapons coming from Iraq and being used in Germany, because of an election (Schroeder the pig). Their fear was with even modest amounts 25 million people could die.

    Listened more to Powell and less to Cheney.
    Bush listened to many people. Hillary Clinton told Code Pink she had info from her time in the WH with co-prez Billy about Saddam's WMD. That vid is easy to find. I suggest you take a peek.
    These are just off the top of my head.
    So, your list amounts to nothing.

    Care to try again?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 02-08-11 at 03:15 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  7. #27
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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    ROTFLOL... You are now crapping an enormous load on Bill Clinton. Nice of you to admit that under Clinton's 8-years he neglected the military... which is typical of Libs.

    Thomas Sowell shreds Clinton in this 1999 article, and gives facts of how badly Clinton neglected the military.
    Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive Search
    We didn't have aproblem of not having enough military. It was a planning problem. An approach problem.

    The military walked through Iraq and kicked ass. They got to Baghdad in 2 weeks. Now, when the German and Japanese were defeated, they didn't loot themselves and they didn't terrorize. Iraqi's did. OK, post ass-kicking things got tough for a while, BUT... if you know anything about war, if you are familiar with Clausewitz... you know war is rarely predictable.
    Sure they did. Would anyone have expected anything different? Seriously? And the problems were predicted. Even Bush sr stated going into Iraq would be easy, leaving hard. Your side keeps acting like no one knew or expected the problems. That simply isn't true.

    They had a plan, and Gen. Franks created it. It's disingenuous to say they didn't have a plan. Pure hogwash.
    Seriously, not a good one, or a complete one, or one that accounted for what was reasonable to expect.

    They had plans before Bush came to office. You think the military doesn't have plans of actions for different theatres? Oh my.
    See above.

    He was, and if you read Woodward's book he documents Bush grilling CIA chief Tenet, and Tenet telling him it was "a slam dunk". ALL our allies believed Saddam had WMD, and Hans Blix believed he had and was lying... I've posted this stuff before. The Germans hid their fear of biological weapons coming from Iraq and being used in Germany, because of an election (Schroeder the pig). Their fear was with even modest amounts 25 million people could die.
    Like too many, you misread Tenet. The slam dunk as wmds as an excuse. It was not a slam dunk as to the factual evidence. tenet himself clarified that alter, but frankly most you have caught that in context. They were talking about reasons to go into Iraq, Bush notes there is not enough evidence. Tenet argues it will work as an excuse, and says it is a slam dunk.

    Bush listened to many people. Hillary Clinton told Code Pink she had info from her time in the WH with co-prez Billy about Saddam's WMD. That vid is easy to find. I suggest you take a peek.
    And after Clinton bombed, his people said the threat was ended, over. A lot of people believed Saddam had some left over wmds. A lot fewer, to very few, actually believed he was growing and gathering. And when you take into account the state of his infastructure, there was no liklely hood he was the kind of threat Bush made him out to be.

    So, your list amounts to nothing.

    Care to try again?
    I beg to differ, You're drinking the koolaid doesn't destory the list. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    It amazes me when people can even try and compare World War 2 to wars like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan...

    "Well we won that one"

    Yeah well it was a completely different kind of war. Conventional vs. Unconventional I.E. Geurilla/Insurgency vs. Tank battles in the fields of normandy against an opponent that was equal.
    Absolutely, I agree. It boggles the mind.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And the most inhumane thing we did was leave, knowing full well the slaughter that would result in Cambodia as a result.

    Dropping ordinance is useless when there's no war plan in place.
    Like Iraq, it may not have been a good plan, as it was still in WWII mode, but there was a plan. And we were trying to win. We killed a lot of people, and for no valid reason. And in the end, just liek with Iraq, we added injury to injury. And like Iraq, our real mistake was going in in the first place.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Exclusive: Rumsfeld unloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Like Iraq, it may not have been a good plan, as it was still in WWII mode, but there was a plan. And we were trying to win. We killed a lot of people, and for no valid reason. And in the end, just liek with Iraq, we added injury to injury. And like Iraq, our real mistake was going in in the first place.
    So you're for democracy and against torture, but you just don't have the stomach to actually do something about it. Got it.

    Those poor people in Darfur will just have to keep dying by the thousands. Not our problem.

    Too bad those people aren't whales or pit bulls or........trees. You know, the things liberals REALLY care about.

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