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Thread: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

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    shocked2 Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Well this is surprising! And VERY interesting at that! Heck they need to protect their borders so..... I guess this MIGHT work.

    Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.



    Really.



    It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"



    Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."



    The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.



    In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

    CONTINUED: azcentral.com blogs - E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog - EJMontini - Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)
    Last edited by The Giant Noodle; 02-02-11 at 10:59 PM.
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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    SCOTUS:

    "Federal Supremacy. SB1433 overturned."

    Arizona:


    (not that this will pass in the first place.)


    Of course, I would not cry much if Arizona DID pass this and try to act like they're a sovereign nation. Remember how that worked out last time? 49 to 1 odds this time, AZ...
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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    I seem to recall there was some minor SCOTUS case back in the day that stated federal authority supersedes states authority... hmmm

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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Well this is surprising! And VERY interesting at that! Heck they need to protect their borders so..... I guess this MIGHT work.


    CONTINUED: azcentral.com blogs - E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog - EJMontini - Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)



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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Of course, I would not cry much if Arizona DID pass this and try to act like they're a sovereign nation. Remember how that worked out last time? 49 to 1 odds this time, AZ...
    They are sovereign.

    This is re-re-quoted from a post made by a user here last year or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison from the Virginia Resolution of 1798
    That this Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the federal government, as resulting from the compact, to which the states are parties; as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact; as no further valid that they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the states who are parties thereto, have the right, and are in duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson First Inaugural Address
    If there be any among us who wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated, where reason is left free to combat it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson Kentucky Resolution of 1799
    1. Resolved, That the several states composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that by compact, under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes, delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each state to itself the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: That to this compact each state acceded as a state, and is an integral party, its co-states forming as to itself, the other party: That the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among parties having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions, as of the mode and measure of redress.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison from Virginia Ratification of the Constitution of the United States
    WE the Delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the General Assembly, and now met in Convention, having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention, and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us, to decide thereon, DO in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will: that therefore no right of any denomination, can be cancelled, abridged, restrained or modified, by the Congress, by the Senate or House of Representatives acting in any capacity, by the President or any department or officer of the United States, except in those instances in which power is given by the Constitution for those purposes: and that among other essential rights, the liberty of conscience and of the press cannot be cancelled, abridged, restrained or modified by any authority of the United States.
    You libs can hide behind rulings like Texas v. White if you wish, but the fact remains the country is founded on a union of nations that allows those nations to break from that union if they so wish. There is a logical reason that can't be denied that the states are called states and the union is called a union. Try to pretend if you wish that union was indeed a take over by the all powerful government if you wish than do you damnest to try to support it by statements of the time.

    Anyway, I support this action. More states need to threaten to leave.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-02-11 at 11:40 PM.

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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Disputes over State Nullification of Fed law was one of the major causes of the Civil War.

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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Yeah, this is nullification, not secession. Jackson and Calhoun had a pissin match over this over 150 years ago. South Carolina tried it under the Jackson admin regarding the "Tariff of abominations..." Didn't work.

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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Yeah, this is nullification, not secession. Jackson and Calhoun had a pissin match over this over 150 years ago. South Carolina tried it under the Jackson admin regarding the "Tariff of abominations..." Didn't work.
    Nullification leads to secession. If you can't nullify something, the logical next step is to leave the group forcing you to listen right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You libs can hide behind rulings like Texas v. White if you wish, but the fact remains the country is founded on a union of nations that allows those nations to break from that union if they so wish. There is a logical reason that can't be denied that the states are called states and the union is called a union. Try to pretend if you wish that union was indeed a take over by the all powerful government if you wish than do you damnest to try to support it by statements of the time.

    Anyway, I support this action. More states need to threaten to leave.
    You know what, Arizona should f**king try it. See what happens. This Union will not dissolve, and anyone who wants that is UnAmerican.

    And stop being partisan, I bet you there's a crap load of conservatives against the nullification doctrine because, lest we forget, the last time we had this argument, 688,000 Americans died.
    Last edited by repeter; 02-03-11 at 12:08 AM.
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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Nullification leads to secession. If you can't nullify something, the logical next step is to leave the group forcing you to listen right?
    No. It doesn't lead to it. The Civil War wasn't fought over a tariff, last I checked.

    Without Nullification, however, all that is left is secession -- but it's not a cause.

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    Re: Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    No. It doesn't lead to it. The Civil War wasn't fought over a tariff, last I checked.

    Without Nullification, however, all that is left is secession -- but it's not a cause.
    Whatever you want to say, the same principle from nullification applies directly to secession. Obviously, the federal government is going to enforce whatever the Arizona law nullifies, and thats going to create another battle of states' rights v. federal rights.

    Unless you want to say the Civil War was not caused by tensions on the issue of State Rights v. Federal Rights.
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