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Thread: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by satandog View Post
    Here are some private sector employees funded by the stimulus.

    'Stimulus got me my job' - 'It's keeping me employed' (1) - CNNMoney.com
    As the ONE worker in the article states......"It's still stimulus funded and it's keeping me employed"

    .........so what happens to the millions of "jobs" created by PORKULUS the very moment stimulus funding runs out? Was it a Jobs Bill or a Postponed Unemployment bill?

    Here is a chart of US GDP from 1960 to 2009, up 2,592%. Our current GDP is 14 trillion. Almost 3 times second place Japan, at 5 trillion, and third place China, slightly less than 5 trillion.

    World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google public data

    For all of our issues this is still a great country and full of opportunity.
    Imagine how great this country would be without a government spending us into bankruptcy....oblivion....and beyond.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    It went like... up in smoke mahn. Totally wasted mahn.


    Chong: Like hey mahn... look, the dude in the avatar that funded our stash... he's the same color as us mahn. Musta been smokin the same skunk as us mahn. He looks pissed though mahn... musta had a rough high man.

    Cheech: Hey man, what's that propeller thing on his head man? Is it to keep his head cool or what man? Maybe to keep the smoke from goin in his eyes man. Cool **** man, I need one of those too man. Might save me from buy'in so much Visine man.

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    It went to Friends of Barack didn't it?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Reduced net borrowing by households is not necessarily a bad thing. Think of a person with a certain amount of debt, who plans to pay off at least $X of that debt before he spends his income on anything discretionary. Well, a stimulus from the government will get him closer to paying off that debt, and therefore closer to being able to spend his money on something else.
    Isn't that effectively saying the debt was transferred from the individual who incurred it in the first place to al the rest of us when the Government borrowed money to give it to this person to pay their personal debt? In my business we stamp invoices with the note: "Credit Card payment accepted at time of purchase only." In other words if you buy from us with a Purchase Order - then you have to pay us, not transfer that obligation to the credit card company after the fact.

    I don't know about you, but I do not borrow to pay another's debt

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    This post caught my eye. Here are my extensive comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $300,000 for a GPS-equipped helicopter to hunt for radioactive rabbit droppings at the Hanford nuclear reservation in Washington state.
    No doubt someone is to be employed to fly the helicopter, so that's at least one job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $30 million for a spring training baseball complex for the Arizona Diamondbacks and Colorado Rockies.
    Which no doubt employed a few people to build...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $11 million for Microsoft to build a bridge connecting its two headquarter campuses in Redmond, Wash., which are separated by a highway.
    Which again, clearly employed a few people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $430,000 to repair a bridge in Iowa County, Wis., that carries 10 or fewer cars per day.
    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $800,000 for the John Murtha Airport in Johnstown, Pa., serving about 20 passengers per day, to build a backup runway.
    Does it not occur to people that perhaps there are plans to increase traffic there? Again, surely we didn't just throw the money on the ground and a runway popped right up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $219,000 for Syracuse University to study the sex lives of freshmen women.
    This probably involved interviews and distributing surveys...which means most of the money probably went to employ people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $2.3 million for the U.S. Forest Service to rear large numbers of arthropods, including the Asian longhorned beetle, the nun moth and the woolly adelgid.
    Long term employment for at least a few people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $3.4 million for a 13-foot tunnel for turtles and other wildlife attempting to cross U.S. 27 in Lake Jackson, Fla.
    Did the tunnel just build itself? Surely not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $1.15 million to install a guardrail for a persistently dry lake bed in Guymon, Okla.
    If this is the project I'm thinking of, I know the contractor who got this job. He was able to keep 15 people employed who he otherwise would have had to let go because of this contract. And though the lake bed is dry, there's a steep drop-off near the road. That's what the guardrail was built for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $9.38 million to renovate a century-old train depot in Lancaster County, Pa., that has not been used for three decades.
    It didn't renovate itself. And now it's in use. Given the cost of shipping long distances via semi trailer, we need to be rehabilitating our rail system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $2.5 million in stimulus checks sent to the deceased.
    Out of 862 billion dollars, that's a pretty small level of error...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $6 million for a snow-making facility in Duluth, Minn.
    Which must surely employ at least a few people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $173,834 to weatherize eight pickup trucks in Madison County, Ill.
    Did they weatherize themselves, or did a few people get paid to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $20,000 for a fish sperm freezer at the Gavins Point National Fish Hatchery in South Dakota.
    Is this reporter unaware of the facts of life? If you want fish, you'll need fish sperm. And again, I imagine that it needs employed people to run it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $380,000 to spay and neuter pets in Wichita, Kan.
    Employed at least one vet and a few assistants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $300 apiece for thousands of signs at road construction sites across the country announcing that the projects are funded by stimulus money.
    Given that the alternative would be having this dumbass reporter claiming that the stimulus money wasn't being used for anything, this seems like a fair thing. And again, surely people were paid to make, ship, and place those signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $1.5 million for a fence to block would-be jumpers from leaping off the All-American Bridge in Akron, Ohio.
    Now this one, I disagree with. A lot more people need to kill themselves. I have a long list of suggestions about who if you're interested...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $1 million to study the health effects of environmentally friendly public housing on 300 people in Chicago.
    I happen to know that this study was conducted by robots who are made and serviced by other robots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $356,000 for Indiana University to study childhood comprehension of foreign accents compared with native speech.
    Robots, again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $983,952 for street beautification in Ann Arbor, Mich., including decorative lighting, trees, benches and bike paths.
    Does the reporter think this was accomplished by robots also (gay decorator robots, perhaps)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $148,438 for Washington State University to analyze the use of marijuana in conjunction with medications like morphine.
    Potentially saving significant health care costs that would otherwise come out of the taxpayer pocket...and again, surely it took paying some people to accomplish the study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $462,000 to purchase 22 concrete toilets for use in the Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri
    Again, people paid to do this. And, it should moderately increase traffic to the National Forest over the long term, which means a need for more park rangers and maintenance workers. When you build infrastructure, jobs are also created.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $3.1 million to transform a canal barge into a floating museum that will travel the Erie Canal in New York state.
    But strangely, it will be a museum that employs absolutely no one at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $1.3 million on government arts jobs in Maine, including $30,000 for basket makers, $20,000 for storytelling and $12,500 for a music festival.
    Would you want to live in a world where there were no stories or music? Seriously? And people have to be paid to make them. Even baskets have a use, and people pay for them, and have to be paid to make them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $71,000 for a hybrid car to be used by student drivers in Colchester, Vt., as well as a plug-in hybrid for town workers decked out with a sign touting the vehicle's energy efficiency.
    The more "viral" ways we can find to get people thinking about energy efficiency, the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    - $1 million for Portland, Ore., to replace 100 aging bike lockers and build a garage that would house 250 bicycles
    Staffed by robots and built by same...hopefully by now the point is obvious.

    Now, since these are government funded, they automatically come under fire from conservatives. However, when private enterprise produces plastic pumpkins for getting halloween candy (because sacks weren't working well enough), imitation bull scrota for hanging off the back of your pickup truck, tuxedos in 17 different colors and styles for Ken and Barbie dolls, aerosol cheese spray in a holiday can, or, say, mortgage backed securities, those same conservatives make the points I just made: it employs people.

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    This post caught my eye. Here are my extensive comments:



    No doubt someone is to be employed to fly the helicopter, so that's at least one job.



    Which no doubt employed a few people to build...



    Which again, clearly employed a few people.



    Ditto.



    Does it not occur to people that perhaps there are plans to increase traffic there? Again, surely we didn't just throw the money on the ground and a runway popped right up...



    This probably involved interviews and distributing surveys...which means most of the money probably went to employ people.



    Long term employment for at least a few people.



    Did the tunnel just build itself? Surely not...



    If this is the project I'm thinking of, I know the contractor who got this job. He was able to keep 15 people employed who he otherwise would have had to let go because of this contract. And though the lake bed is dry, there's a steep drop-off near the road. That's what the guardrail was built for.



    It didn't renovate itself. And now it's in use. Given the cost of shipping long distances via semi trailer, we need to be rehabilitating our rail system.



    Out of 862 billion dollars, that's a pretty small level of error...



    Which must surely employ at least a few people...



    Did they weatherize themselves, or did a few people get paid to do it?



    Is this reporter unaware of the facts of life? If you want fish, you'll need fish sperm. And again, I imagine that it needs employed people to run it.



    Employed at least one vet and a few assistants.



    Given that the alternative would be having this dumbass reporter claiming that the stimulus money wasn't being used for anything, this seems like a fair thing. And again, surely people were paid to make, ship, and place those signs...



    Now this one, I disagree with. A lot more people need to kill themselves. I have a long list of suggestions about who if you're interested...



    I happen to know that this study was conducted by robots who are made and serviced by other robots...



    Robots, again...



    Does the reporter think this was accomplished by robots also (gay decorator robots, perhaps)?



    Potentially saving significant health care costs that would otherwise come out of the taxpayer pocket...and again, surely it took paying some people to accomplish the study.



    Again, people paid to do this. And, it should moderately increase traffic to the National Forest over the long term, which means a need for more park rangers and maintenance workers. When you build infrastructure, jobs are also created.



    But strangely, it will be a museum that employs absolutely no one at all...



    Would you want to live in a world where there were no stories or music? Seriously? And people have to be paid to make them. Even baskets have a use, and people pay for them, and have to be paid to make them.



    The more "viral" ways we can find to get people thinking about energy efficiency, the better.



    Staffed by robots and built by same...hopefully by now the point is obvious.
    So what your saying is........there is no such thing as a bridge to nowhere.......and every and any government project is full of merit.....and worthy of stealing from our Grandchildren's grandchildren. The government is the almighty and can do no wrong.



    Now, since these are government funded, they automatically come under fire from conservatives. However, when private enterprise produces plastic pumpkins for getting halloween candy (because sacks weren't working well enough), imitation bull scrota for hanging off the back of your pickup truck, tuxedos in 17 different colors and styles for Ken and Barbie dolls, aerosol cheese spray in a holiday can, or, say, mortgage backed securities, those same conservatives make the points I just made: it employs people.
    Well except the biggest difference is the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell.........
    .........dont send men with guns to your door if you refuse to buy their product......like Governemnt does.


    If your having a hard time making ends meet, putting food on the table, or just not inclined to buy cheese spray or bull scrota.........
    ........the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell dont automatically seize 30-50% of your paycheck.....like Government does.

    Your justification for your entire argument ends with "Well it employs people"........which leads me to believe you dont know the difference between a JOB and a JOB. One is long term employment........the other occurs after a rubdown in an asian massage parlor or after a Democrat "stimulus bill". One benefits society and the economy.....the other leaves the public wanting their money back from those spend happy liberal whores.

    What happens to those "millions of jobs created by PORKULUS" the very second stimulus funding runs out?

    So did this Subprime Government Spending to Nowhere actually create "Jobs"......or just postpone unemployment?
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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    So what your saying is........there is no such thing as a bridge to nowhere.......and every and any government project is full of merit.....and worthy of stealing from our Grandchildren's grandchildren. The government is the almighty and can do no wrong.
    No, if I were saying that, I would have said just that. I am quite critical of government, but I have come to view the problem as not one of government per se, or of corporations per se. The problem we have in this country is that we, ourselves, the people, as a whole, have become soft, weak, lazy, unhealthy, ignorant, uneducated, brutish, foolish and foolhardy, undisciplined, unkind, disconnected, credulous, unvital, and as a people almost entirely without merit. As a result, we have lost cohesion.

    This should surprise no one. So far, it has happened to every great nation that attained a world-leadership position, either through economic hegemony or military conquest, that didn't perish as a direct result of a great war. This is partially due to the inability of national myths to adapt to radically new circumstances, but I don't want to get into such abstractions here. It's sufficient to point out that this is what brought down the British, the Mongols, the Mauryans, the Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Romans, the Macedonians, the Assyrians, and probably the Egyptians, the Aztec, and the Maya. Four exceptions I can think of are the Achaemenids, the Turks, Germany and Japan, all of which lost a great war. Russia is still playing out.

    Anyway, the point is that we get the government we deserve. Government is really just a product of our social interactions. It is not some monolithic and starkly separate entity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    Well except the biggest difference is the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell.........
    .........dont send men with guns to your door if you refuse to buy their product......like Governemnt does.
    The government sends men with guns to people's doors for failing to use the concrete toilets in Mark Twain National Park? Or for not using that train depot in Pennsylvannia? What products are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    If your having a hard time making ends meet, putting food on the table, or just not inclined to buy cheese spray or bull scrota.........
    ........the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell dont automatically seize 30-50% of your paycheck.....like Government does.
    First, I don't recall ever having 30-50% of my payheck siezed. And I've been working a long time. The highest rate I've ever paid was, IIRC, 28%, and that was under Bush. Second, I'm afraid I can't credit your underlying argument. Without taxes, there could be no government. History shows that we can't do without government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    Your justification for your entire argument ends with "Well it employs people"........which leads me to believe you dont know the difference between a JOB and a JOB. One is long term employment........the other occurs after a rubdown in an asian massage parlor or after a Democrat "stimulus bill". One benefits society and the economy.....the other leaves the public wanting their money back from those spend happy liberal whores.
    You seem to be referring to temporary vs. permanent employment. You have a valid point, but only just. It doesn't have the force you think it does. First, that money is spent by those who get the temporary jobs, which increases revenue where they spend it, allowing greater retention. Second, the government typically hires contracting firms, who in turn employ people full time. As I mentioned on that job in Guymon, OK--the contractor would have had to let half his guys go. But he got that job and that was enough to get them through the worst of it. So that's 15 jobs saved that otherwise wouldn't have been. I would imagine similar circumstances prevail in at least some of those other instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    What happens to those "millions of jobs created by PORKULUS" the very second stimulus funding runs out?
    Not what you seem to think. You're applying very simplistic thinking to a complex situation. Some, no doubt, do evaporate. Others do not. Of those that do go away, some will have provided just enough for people to get over the hump and get permanent employment as the economy improves and the liquidity spent in the stimulus helps the job market improve. Additionally, the money spent helps keep jobs that otherwise likely would have been cut.

    That said, I don't particularly like the spending bill. It should have never been necessary. The story of how we got here is convoluted, and both libs and cons are well indicted at every step of the way.
    Last edited by ashurbanipal; 02-03-11 at 04:34 PM.

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    No, if I were saying that, I would have said just that. I am quite critical of government,
    Quite critical of government........and yet you couldnt bring yourself to criticize even one of the many Porkulus Projects to Nowhere......

    but I have come to view the problem as not one of government per se, or of corporations per se. The problem we have in this country is that we, ourselves, the people, as a whole, have become soft, weak, lazy, unhealthy, ignorant, uneducated, brutish, foolish and foolhardy, undisciplined, unkind, disconnected, credulous, unvital, and as a people almost entirely without merit. As a result, we have lost cohesion.
    First I would say speak for yourself.......secondly.....we have a nanny state liberal governemnt that rewards Failure while punishing Success. Continue to punish success.....we shall be without......continue to reward failure.......we will have nothing but.

    The afflictions you list....are as much a result of the government as it is the people.

    This should surprise no one. So far, it has happened to every great nation that attained a world-leadership position, either through economic hegemony or military conquest, that didn't perish as a direct result of a great war. This is partially due to the inability of national myths to adapt to radically new circumstances, but I don't want to get into such abstractions here. It's sufficient to point out that this is what brought down the British, the Mongols, the Mauryans, the Sassanids, the Byzantines, the Romans, the Macedonians, the Assyrians, and probably the Egyptians, the Aztec, and the Maya. Four exceptions I can think of are the Achaemenids, the Turks, Germany and Japan, all of which lost a great war. Russia is still playing out.

    Anyway, the point is that we get the government we deserve. Government is really just a product of our social interactions. It is not some monolithic and starkly separate entity.
    And does the action or inaction of a government have any effect on social interactions?

    The government sends men with guns to people's doors for failing to use the concrete toilets in Mark Twain National Park? Or for not using that train depot in Pennsylvannia? What products are you talking about?
    Should you fail to pay for the products that government is forcing you to buy............men with guns are dispatched to your door. This doesnt happen with the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., Matell or anywhere in the free market.

    First, I don't recall ever having 30-50% of my payheck siezed. And I've been working a long time. The highest rate I've ever paid was, IIRC, 28%, and that was under Bush. Second, I'm afraid I can't credit your underlying argument. Without taxes, there could be no government. History shows that we can't do without government.
    What was the highest rate you paid to the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell?

    You seem to be referring to temporary vs. permanent employment. You have a valid point, but only just. It doesn't have the force you think it does. First, that money is spent by those who get the temporary jobs, which increases revenue where they spend it, allowing greater retention. Second, the government typically hires contracting firms, who in turn employ people full time. As I mentioned on that job in Guymon, OK--the contractor would have had to let half his guys go. But he got that job and that was enough to get them through the worst of it. So that's 15 jobs saved that otherwise wouldn't have been. I would imagine similar circumstances prevail in at least some of those other instances.
    .....do you also believe unemployment checks create jobs?

    Not what you seem to think. You're applying very simplistic thinking to a complex situation. Some, no doubt, do evaporate. Others do not. Of those that do go away, some will have provided just enough for people to get over the hump and get permanent employment as the economy improves and the liquidity spent in the stimulus helps the job market improve. Additionally, the money spent helps keep jobs that otherwise likely would have been cut.

    That said, I don't particularly like the spending bill. It should have never been necessary. The story of how we got here is convoluted, and both libs and cons are well indicted at every step of the way.
    So perhaps all the Democrat claims of "Porkulus creating jobs" should be replaced with "Porkulus creating temporary work"......
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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    In answer to the question I am reminded of the title of and old Cheech & Chong movie.

    Up In Smoke.

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    Re: Where Did the Stimulus Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    Quite critical of government........and yet you couldnt bring yourself to criticize even one of the many Porkulus Projects to Nowhere......
    One does not preclude the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    First I would say speak for yourself
    You might indeed, but you'd be wrong to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    we have a nanny state liberal governemnt that rewards Failure while punishing Success. Continue to punish success.....we shall be without......continue to reward failure.......we will have nothing but.
    First--we do not have a liberal government. We don't have a conservative government either. Second, it's not as simple as you claim. At least as bad as what you mention is the promotion of a highly competitive and materialistic attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    The afflictions you list....are as much a result of the government as it is the people.
    I agree, but not for the reasons you do. The government is a part and product of the whole--the government is a microcosm of the people. Not that it must be so. It's just that, in our case, it is so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    And does the action or inaction of a government have any effect on social interactions?
    Sure, but again, you're treating it as a separate entity. It's anything but.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    Should you fail to pay for the products that government is forcing you to buy............men with guns are dispatched to your door. This doesnt happen with the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., Matell or anywhere in the free market.
    First, we don't have a free market. And we shouldn't.

    Second, you're comparing apples to oranges. What do you think would happen if governments all over the world stopped collecting taxes entirely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    What was the highest rate you paid to the Plastic Pumpkin factory, Bull Scrota Inc., and Matell?
    Far less, but why is that relevant? The original point of the article was to show that the stimulus spending was going for frivolous stuff. I responded that it had created or saved jobs, and that even though the results may be perceived by some as frivolous, that's hardly important since it's a fact that frivolous things do create employment. Plenty of people are gainfully employed in frivolous pursuits (like marketing plastic pumpkins). In short, the frivolity of the project does not make a good criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    .....do you also believe unemployment checks create jobs?
    I'm fairly sure they do, though indirectly. Businesses hire people to manage a share in the market. Where the market is softening, businesses fire people. Where the market is strengthening, they hire. That's the theory anyway; the actual situation is more complex. But unemployment checks are money that is spent on things like gas, groceries, mortgage payments, etc.--and the companies doing the selling all employ people. Without that money, those businesses would be laying people off. Where the market is sustained long enough and more revenue is generated, that will typically result in hiring.

    The dislocations in our economy go back a long way. Their most immediate causes lay in some very poor decisions made in the 70's and 80's. But it can be traced back much farther than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha
    So perhaps all the Democrat claims of "Porkulus creating jobs" should be replaced with "Porkulus creating temporary work"......
    No, that doesn't follow.

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