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Thread: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

  1. #81
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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Who cares? Cap and trade is a very bad idea.
    It was a great idea when the republicans came out with it. Now that democrats finally agree, it becomes a bad idea.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the regulations are too stringent, then it becomes over-regulation.
    It's your opinion that the regulations are too stringent, but that opinion is certainly not based on common sense.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Here is an editorial that states:

    The EPA is reportedly reviewing nearly three dozen other pending permits.
    Going to the mountaintop - The Boston Globe

    So we shall what happens.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's your opinion that the regulations are too stringent, but that opinion is certainly not based on common sense.
    The billions of dollars spent by taxpayers to clean up pollution by corporatrions shows the EPA is too easy going.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's your opinion that the regulations are too stringent, but that opinion is certainly not based on common sense.
    Common sense dictates they should come up with another solution, other than killing jobs in the middle of a depression.

    I would buy into the whole, "it's all about the environment", jargin if Obama hadn't promised to put coal companies out of business.

    Obama’s promise to bankrupt coal industry to cost 1,000 jobs in upper Midwest Hot Air

    And to make energy prices, shyrocket

    Obama: I’ll make energy prices “skyrocket” Hot Air

    This has, "political agenda", written all over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The billions of dollars spent by taxpayers to clean up pollution by corporatrions shows the EPA is too easy going.
    And revoking permits for not following regulations is too stringent.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Who cares? Cap and trade is a very bad idea.
    The efficiency of what later was to be called the "cap-and-trade" approach to air pollution abatement was first demonstrated in a series of micro-economic computer simulation studies between 1967 and 1970 for the National Air Pollution Control Administration (predecessor to the United States Environmental Protection Agency's Office of Air and Radiation) by Ellison Burton and William Sanjour. These studies used mathematical models of several cities and their emission sources in order to compare the cost and effectiveness of various control strategies.[12][13][14][15][16] Each abatement strategy was compared with the "least cost solution" produced by a computer optimization program to identify the least costly combination of source reductions in order to achieve a given abatement goal.[17] In each case it was found that the least cost solution was dramatically less costly than the same amount of pollution reduction produced by any conventional abatement strategy.[18] This led to the concept of "cap and trade" as a means of achieving the "least cost solution" for a given level of abatement.
    The development of emissions trading over the course of its history can be divided into four phases:[19]
    Gestation: Theoretical articulation of the instrument (by Coase,[20] Crocker,[21] Dales,[22] Montgomery[23] etc.) and, independent of the former, tinkering with "flexible regulation" at the US Environmental Protection Agency.
    Proof of Principle: First developments towards trading of emission certificates based on the "offset-mechanism" taken up in Clean Air Act in 1977.
    Prototype: Launching of a first "cap-and-trade" system as part of the US Acid Rain Program in Title IV of the 1990 Clean Air Act, officially announced as a paradigm shift in environmental policy, as prepared by "Project 88", a network-building effort to bring together environmental and industrial interests in the US.
    Regime formation: branching out from the US clean air policy to global climate policy, and from there to the European Union, along with the expectation of an emerging global carbon market and the formation of the "carbon industry".
    In the United States, the "acid rain"-related emission trading system was principally conceived by C. Boyden Gray, a G.H.W. Bush administration attorney. Gray worked with the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), who worked with the EPA to write the bill that became law as part of the Clean Air Act of 1990. The new emissions cap on NOx and SO2 gases took effect in 1995, and according to Smithsonian Magazine, those acid rain emissions dropped 3 million tons that year.[24]
    Emissions trading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    It was a great idea when the republicans came out with it. Now that democrats finally agree, it becomes a bad idea.
    You really shouldn't repeat lies.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  9. #89
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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Common sense dictates they should come up with another solution, other than killing jobs in the middle of a depression.
    That's not common sense, that's partisan buffoonery. BIG difference.

    I would buy into the whole, "it's all about the environment", jargin if Obama hadn't promised to put coal companies out of business.
    Proving that I was correct. Your opinion i scertainly not based on common sense. It's a conspiracy theory.

    Again, certainly not based on common sense.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    It seems there is reason to worry about water quality in these areas and with this type of mining:

    Water emerges from the base of valley fills containing a variety of solutes toxic or damaging to biota (11). Declines in stream biodiversity have been linked to the level of mining disturbance in WV watersheds (12). Below valley fills in the central Appalachians, streams are characterized by increases in pH, electrical conductivity, and total dissolved solids due to elevated concentrations of sulfate (SO4), calcium, magnesium, and bicarbonate ions (13). The ions are released as coal-generated sulfuric acid weathers carbonate rocks. Stream water SO4 concentrations are closely linked to the extent of mining in these watersheds (11, 14). We found that significant linear increases in the concentrations of metals, as well as decreases in multiple measures of biological health, were associated with increases in stream water SO4 in streams below mined sites (see the chart on page 149). Recovery of biodiversity in mining waste-impacted streams has not been documented, and SO4 pollution is known to persist long after mining ceases (14).

    Conductivity, and concentrations of SO4 and other pollutants associated with mine runoff, can directly cause environmental degradation, including disruption of water and ion balance in aquatic biota (12). Elevated SO4 can exacerbate nutrient pollution of downstream rivers and reservoirs by increasing nitrogen and phosphorus availability through internal eutrophication (15, 16). Elevated SO4 can also increase microbial production of hydrogen sulfide, a toxin for many aquatic plants and organisms (17). Mn, Fe, Al, and Se can become further concentrated in stream sediments, and Se bioaccumulates in organisms (11) (figs. S1 and S2).

    A survey of 78 MTM/VF streams found that 73 had Se water concentrations greater than the 2.0 g/liter threshold for toxic bioaccumulation (18). Se levels exceed this in many WV streams (see the chart on page 149). In some freshwater food webs, Se has bioaccumulated to four times the toxic level; this can cause teratogenic deformities in larval fish (fig. S2) (19), leave fish with Se concentrations above the threshold for reproductive failure (4 ppm), and expose birds to reproductive failure when they eat fish with Se >7 ppm (19, 20). Biota may be exposed to concentrations higher than in the water since many feed on streambed algae that can bioconcentrate Se as much as 800 to 2000 times that in water concentrations (21).
    Potential for Human Health Impacts

    Even after mine-site reclamation (attempts to return a site to premined conditions), groundwater samples from domestic supply wells have higher levels of mine-derived chemical constituents than well water from unmined areas (22). Human health impacts may come from contact with streams or exposure to airborne toxins and dust. State advisories are in effect for excessive human consumption of Se in fish from MTM/VF affected waters. Elevated levels of airborne, hazardous dust have been documented around surface mining operations (23). Adult hospitalizations for chronic pulmonary disorders and hypertension are elevated as a function of county-level coal production, as are rates of mortality; lung cancer; and chronic heart, lung, and kidney disease (24). Health problems are for women and men, so effects are not simply a result of direct occupational exposure of predominantly male coal miners (24).

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