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Thread: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You really shouldn't repeat lies.
    Calling me a liar? A republican did invent cap and trade.
    The Political History of Cap and Trade | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Calling me a liar? A republican did invent cap and trade.
    The Political History of Cap and Trade | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine
    What difference does it make who invented it? It's still a stupid assed idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The efficiency of what later was to be called the "cap-and-trade" approach to air pollution abatement was first demonstrated in a series of micro-economic computer simulation studies between 1967 and 1970 for the National Air Pollution Control Administration (predecessor to the United States Environmental Protection Agency's Office of Air and Radiation) by Ellison Burton and William Sanjour. These studies used mathematical models of several cities and their emission sources in order to compare the cost and effectiveness of various control strategies.[12][13][14][15][16] Each abatement strategy was compared with the "least cost solution" produced by a computer optimization program to identify the least costly combination of source reductions in order to achieve a given abatement goal.[17] In each case it was found that the least cost solution was dramatically less costly than the same amount of pollution reduction produced by any conventional abatement strategy.[18] This led to the concept of "cap and trade" as a means of achieving the "least cost solution" for a given level of abatement.
    The development of emissions trading over the course of its history can be divided into four phases:[19]
    Gestation: Theoretical articulation of the instrument (by Coase,[20] Crocker,[21] Dales,[22] Montgomery[23] etc.) and, independent of the former, tinkering with "flexible regulation" at the US Environmental Protection Agency.
    Proof of Principle: First developments towards trading of emission certificates based on the "offset-mechanism" taken up in Clean Air Act in 1977.
    Prototype: Launching of a first "cap-and-trade" system as part of the US Acid Rain Program in Title IV of the 1990 Clean Air Act, officially announced as a paradigm shift in environmental policy, as prepared by "Project 88", a network-building effort to bring together environmental and industrial interests in the US.
    Regime formation: branching out from the US clean air policy to global climate policy, and from there to the European Union, along with the expectation of an emerging global carbon market and the formation of the "carbon industry".
    In the United States, the "acid rain"-related emission trading system was principally conceived by C. Boyden Gray, a G.H.W. Bush administration attorney. Gray worked with the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), who worked with the EPA to write the bill that became law as part of the Clean Air Act of 1990. The new emissions cap on NOx and SO2 gases took effect in 1995, and according to Smithsonian Magazine, those acid rain emissions dropped 3 million tons that year.[24]
    Emissions trading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I believe the facts speak for themselves
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What difference does it make who invented it? It's still a stupid assed idea.
    I just like to stop that lie of the lefties when I can.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I believe the facts speak for themselves
    Since Reagan’s staff invented cap-and-trade to deal with acid rain from power plant emissions, there is a Republican basis to use this tool. Rather than the huge costs the utility companies predicted, they spend $3 billion a year and save $122 billion! That is enormous financial success in anyone’s book. It worked so well, the Europeans adopted it for their carbon emissions. We are not explaining a new idea; this history is filled with positive facts to tell the story.
    The Reagan White House conceived the first cap-and-trade program to reduce pollution. It was used in the 1980s to phase out lead in gasoline at a lower cost. President Reagan also signed the Montreal Protocol in 1987 to slash the production and use of chemicals that deplete the upper ozone layer essential to screen out cancer-causing ultraviolet rays. His administration established a cap-and-trade system to implement the chemical reductions the protocol required. President George H.W. Bush, Reagan’s successor, was the first president to propose the employment of a cap-and-trade system in an environmental law. The Clean Air Act of 1990 includes his proposed cap-and-trade system to reduce the sulfur pollution from power plants responsible for acid rain. And President George W. Bush also included a cap-and-trade mechanism in his “Clear Skies” bill that would have amended the Clean Air Act.
    Cap and trade was created by Reagan staffers and supported by Bush I and Bush II .
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-19-11 at 02:09 PM.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I just like to stop that lie of the lefties when I can.
    What are you in total denial? Reagan was the first to implement Cap and trade.

    Did you know that a republican invented Obamacare too? His name was Mitt Romney.
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-19-11 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    What are you in total denial? Reagan was the first to implement Cap and trade.

    Did you know that a republican invented Obamacare too? His name was Mitt Romney.
    You're not an honest person. I posted the link to the actual origin of cap and trade, yet you persist in lying. Romney is a Mass. "Republican" and the State Legislature created Mass Care, he just signed it. Which is also why he won't get the GOP Nod. Care to waste more space with trivial nonsense?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You're not an honest person. I posted the link to the actual origin of cap and trade, yet you persist in lying. Romney is a Mass. "Republican" and the State Legislature created Mass Care, he just signed it. Which is also why he won't get the GOP Nod. Care to waste more space with trivial nonsense?
    The first president to use Cap and Trade was Reagan. One of his lawyers presented it to Reagan and it was a huge success. That is a fact. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II all embraced cap and trade.
    Romney is a republican. He may be the next GOP candidate for president. He had a huge part in drafting the Romneycare bill. He just didn't sign the it, he wrote much of it.

    It really is amazing how some of you are in total denial when it comes to historical record.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/us...ics/17cap.html

    A month later, the Bush White House sent Congress a cap-and-trade plan for sulfur dioxide emissions that 18 months later became the linchpin of the 1990 amendments to the Clean Air Act, considered by many to be the most successful domestic environmental legislation ever enacte
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072101375.html

    The Bush administration's new program to cut harmful pollutants from utilities through a cap-and-trade system will do nearly as much to clean the nation's air as the Clinton administration's effort to make aging power plants install pollution controls when they modernize or expand, a report by an independent scientific panel has
    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-20/p..._s=PM:POLITICS
    If Washington wants health care reform with bipartisan support, experts say consider what former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney accomplished as governor in Democratic Massachusetts.

    "You don't have to have a public option," Romney said. "You don't have to have the government getting into the insurance business to make it work."

    Three years after enacting its own version of reform, Massachusetts now has near-universal coverage
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 01-19-11 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Let us know when those miners go back to work.
    They'd better reinvent themselves. The low cost of natural gas is going to make coal burning obsolete.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: EPA shuts down one of the largest Coal Mines in U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Three years after enacting its own version of reform, Massachusetts now has near-universal coverage
    5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts - Jun. 15, 2010
    Lesson 1: The Massachusetts plan does not control costs.
    Lesson 2: Community rating, guaranteed issue and mandated benefits swell costs.
    Lesson 3: Huge subsidies for low-to-medium earners could prove extremely expensive.
    Lesson 4: The exchanges reward people for working less and earning less.
    Lesson 5: The generous plans and added mandates give employers an incentive to drop health insurance.

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