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Thread: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

  1. #121
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I suppose it is better than nothing. I'd just caution that not all perps are incapacitated by pepperspray, nor is such incapacitation instantaneous.
    Well that may be true.
    Daughter is single mother with young son who is afraid to have real gun in house with him. So it may be the next best thing along with her baseball bat.

    Really don't have much experience with the pepperspray out there but I would think once it got in the membrane of the eye it would be a huge irritant.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Well that may be true.
    Daughter is single mother with young son who is afraid to have real gun in house with him. So it may be the next best thing along with her baseball bat.

    Really don't have much experience with the pepperspray out there but I would think once it got in the membrane of the eye it would be a huge irritant.
    Problem is deranged individuals and truly motivated criminals tend to fight through it. Ive always said...if you let them get within arms reach...bad news. There are some lethal close contact defense techniques you can employ...but I think one of the WORST things they ever did was to teach women that a key between the finger or the pointy end of a comb was a deterrent.

    The main value of pepper foam is that people that would simply not carry or use a firearm have a form of defense that can be used from a distance. I wouldnt advocate relying on it to stop people, just stun them long enough to do some of that Hussein Bolt stuff and run like hell. Yelling and screaming fire along the way.

  3. #123
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Problem is deranged individuals and truly motivated criminals tend to fight through it. Ive always said...if you let them get within arms reach...bad news. There are some lethal close contact defense techniques you can employ...but I think one of the WORST things they ever did was to teach women that a key between the finger or the pointy end of a comb was a deterrent.

    The main value of pepper foam is that people that would simply not carry or use a firearm have a form of defense that can be used from a distance. I wouldnt advocate relying on it to stop people, just stun them long enough to do some of that Hussein Bolt stuff and run like hell. Yelling and screaming fire along the way.
    I've keyed a ****er before - trust me - it was a deterrent alright.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I find that statement unsatisfactory. I worry that we've turned into a nation of mostly-wimps.

    All it takes is a little courage, a little presence of mind, and a little willpower.

    I think about my father and his buddies, mostly WW2 vets. They were some tough old men, not afraid of a damn thing. Furthermore they had moral courage... the willingness to ACT on what they thought was right, even at great risk to their lives.

    I know what I do when there is danger... I charge and attack. Not theory, known fact. It used to be a relatively common reaction among men, years ago.

    There are so many people these days that are so caught up in themselves and their own life though, and who are so equivocal and "relative" about everything, that I'm not surprised that out of dozens of people present, only a couple responded with useful action.

    I don't think excusing people's inaction with "well, you don't know how you will react" makes it any better. I think when we held men to a higher standard of courage and positive action, we were a better people for it.

    Just my 0.02


    Montrose' toast: "He either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, who dares not put it to the test, to win or lose it all."


    I prefer this viewpoint...

    I think we are turning into a country of wussies. I don't really know what is causing it.
    Maybe the idea being put into us that we shouldn't have to fear losing our homes , not having enough to eat, getting sick without health insurance, losing our jobs. People now feel they are entitled to safety nets that will protect them from all those things. They feel they don't have to be responsible for choices they make in their lives. Oh, I don't know...
    maybe it's the way we are raising our kids to be less competitive, because they get a trophy just for participating in a game. Or money is a plastic card and has no limit. If you spend too much or don't read the fine print and get screwed, the government will make legislation to punish the evil banks or credit card companies. We're all too stupid to be in charge of our own lives.
    Sorry for the rambling...
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

  5. #125
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Well that may be true.
    Daughter is single mother with young son who is afraid to have real gun in house with him. So it may be the next best thing along with her baseball bat.

    Really don't have much experience with the pepperspray out there but I would think once it got in the membrane of the eye it would be a huge irritant.
    You daughter oughta start teaching the grand baby about gun safety, now. And, store the gun where he can't get to it, but she can access it quickly, if need be.

    Our kids know that all my guns are loaded and aren't to be touched without permission. They may not eat their vegitables and don't pick up their rooms and the 16 y/o step daughter never comes home on time--I'm waiting for her ass, now and she's got 10 minutes, before I'm in the car and headed for the picture show to see where she's at and she knows damn-good-n-well that I'll do it--but they don't touch my guns without permission.

    I personally demonstrated the effects of a .44 mag on a milk jug full of water. That got their attention, big time.

    I don't like that kid she's going with anyway. I would love an excuse to beat the dog **** out of him. He's trash, just like his entire family. I hope that his old man comes over to do something about me kicking his sorry ass son's ass; I'll kick his worthless ass, too. Okay, sorry to get carried away. I'm done with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #126
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I've keyed a ****er before - trust me - it was a deterrent alright.
    It can be. It can also enrage someone into a pretty horrible beating. Ive picked up those pieces as well. Im REALLY glad that it worked for you (so much sarcasm these days...I mean that sincerely!) but I still would advocate something a little more effective. Any tool ya got though...

  7. #127
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You daughter oughta start teaching the grand baby about gun safety, now. And, store the gun where he can't get to it, but she can access it quickly, if need be.

    Our kids know that all my guns are loaded and aren't to be touched without permission. They may not eat their vegitables and don't pick up their rooms and the 16 y/o step daughter never comes home on time--I'm waiting for her ass, now and she's got 10 minutes, before I'm in the car and headed for the picture show to see where she's at and she knows damn-good-n-well that I'll do it--but they don't touch my guns without permission.

    I personally demonstrated the effects of a .44 mag on a milk jug full of water. That got their attention, big time.

    I don't like that kid she's going with anyway. I would love an excuse to beat the dog **** out of him. He's trash, just like his entire family. I hope that his old man comes over to do something about me kicking his sorry ass son's ass; I'll kick his worthless ass, too. Okay, sorry to get carried away. I'm done with that.
    We never made the firearms out to be anythng mysterious. The kids shot with me when they wanted to go shooting. At 26, my oldest daughter is a better shot with my Ruger .45 than I am. She and her husband took a few friends out last week for their first time at the indoor range. My son-in-law said they both just looked at her with this shocked expression as she calmly poked holes in the targets. Sniff...makes me so damn proud...

  8. #128
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    It can be. It can also enrage someone into a pretty horrible beating. Ive picked up those pieces as well. Im REALLY glad that it worked for you (so much sarcasm these days...I mean that sincerely!) but I still would advocate something a little more effective. Any tool ya got though...
    More effective like what?
    You use what you've got - if a key's all you got then a key's all you got.

    I can't imagine me having mace will help at all - I can't even find my cell phone when it rings. But my keys are always in my hand whilst I walk.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I think we are turning into a country of wussies. I don't really know what is causing it.
    Maybe the idea being put into us that we shouldn't have to fear losing our homes , not having enough to eat, getting sick without health insurance, losing our jobs. People now feel they are entitled to safety nets that will protect them from all those things. They feel they don't have to be responsible for choices they make in their lives. Oh, I don't know...
    maybe it's the way we are raising our kids to be less competitive, because they get a trophy just for participating in a game. Or money is a plastic card and has no limit. If you spend too much or don't read the fine print and get screwed, the government will make legislation to punish the evil banks or credit card companies. We're all too stupid to be in charge of our own lives.
    Sorry for the rambling...
    But at the same time our country is classified as one of the most violent. Everyone's supposedly desensitized because of too much sex, too much violence, not enough human-connection. Not as much motherly love is making everyone a gruff fighter before they can walk.

    Everyone's supposedly ****ed up, in therapy and broken.

    So which one is it? We're becoming too pussified or we're going 50-grit?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter



    Here he is with Geraldo. What a nice young man.

    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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