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Thread: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

  1. #111
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    A 33 round Glock is not insance. What is insane are people like the Arizona shooter. Guns did not enable him. He was bound to kill. What people need to be taught is to defend themselves. Why did it take so long for a crowd of 100+ to tackle just one person?
    In such an incident people have to deal with the shock, situational awareness, emotions, so many things. They focus on that extensively in the military and still have soldiers fold in the face of the real deal.
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    In such an incident people have to deal with the shock, situational awareness, emotions, so many things. They focus on that extensively in the military and still have soldiers fold in the face of the real deal.
    I agree...it is easy to state what you think YOU would have done when you arent the one at the pointy end of the sharp stick. I dont fault anyone in the crowd for their responses. Cops, soldiers, firemen...every instance is different and no one is immune to thinking twice before leaping into the hurricane.

  3. #113
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I didnt respond to your comment pro or con re firearms. I commented on what I percieved as a joking comment about everyone should have a bodyguard, to which I made a light-hearted response.
    Sorry, being around here has made me a bit jumpy
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  4. #114
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    In such an incident people have to deal with the shock, situational awareness, emotions, so many things. They focus on that extensively in the military and still have soldiers fold in the face of the real deal.

    I find that statement unsatisfactory. I worry that we've turned into a nation of mostly-wimps.

    All it takes is a little courage, a little presence of mind, and a little willpower.

    I think about my father and his buddies, mostly WW2 vets. They were some tough old men, not afraid of a damn thing. Furthermore they had moral courage... the willingness to ACT on what they thought was right, even at great risk to their lives.

    I know what I do when there is danger... I charge and attack. Not theory, known fact. It used to be a relatively common reaction among men, years ago.

    There are so many people these days that are so caught up in themselves and their own life though, and who are so equivocal and "relative" about everything, that I'm not surprised that out of dozens of people present, only a couple responded with useful action.

    I don't think excusing people's inaction with "well, you don't know how you will react" makes it any better. I think when we held men to a higher standard of courage and positive action, we were a better people for it.

    Just my 0.02


    Montrose' toast: "He either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, who dares not put it to the test, to win or lose it all."


    I prefer this viewpoint...


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  5. #115
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Sorry, being around here has made me a bit jumpy
    No worries...Ive probably contributed to it a time or too myself. Sorry for that!

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I find that statement unsatisfactory. I worry that we've turned into a nation of mostly-wimps.

    All it takes is a little courage, a little presence of mind, and a little willpower.

    I think about my father and his buddies, mostly WW2 vets. They were some tough old men, not afraid of a damn thing. Furthermore they had moral courage... the willingness to ACT on what they thought was right, even at great risk to their lives.

    I know what I do when there is danger... I charge and attack. Not theory, known fact. It used to be a relatively common reaction among men, years ago.

    There are so many people these days that are so caught up in themselves and their own life though, and who are so equivocal and "relative" about everything, that I'm not surprised that out of dozens of people present, only a couple responded with useful action.

    I don't think excusing people's inaction with "well, you don't know how you will react" makes it any better. I think when we held men to a higher standard of courage and positive action, we were a better people for it.

    Just my 0.02


    Montrose' toast: "He either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, who dares not put it to the test, to win or lose it all."


    I prefer this viewpoint...
    The Good Rev stated something the other day that is entirely true. TELLING people what it is like to be in a combat situation isnt very effective. There are certain feelings you cant possibly adequately share...like what happens after the adreneline wears off the first time. And while I agree we have created generations people with a victim mentality (odd we are discussing this in a thread about an armed citizen that actually used judgement and ran INTO the face of danger), there are some that just arent 'built' that way and there always have been.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The Good Rev stated something the other day that is entirely true. TELLING people what it is like to be in a combat situation isnt very effective. There are certain feelings you cant possibly adequately share...like what happens after the adreneline wears off the first time. And while I agree we have created generations people with a victim mentality (odd we are discussing this in a thread about an armed citizen that actually used judgement and ran INTO the face of danger), there are some that just arent 'built' that way and there always have been.
    No, not everyone is cut out to be a "sheepdog". Still I think we used to have more sheepdogs and fewer sheep in previous generations, and societal expectations were geared toward men taking timely action in such situations.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    No, not everyone is cut out to be a "sheepdog". Still I think we used to have more sheepdogs and fewer sheep in previous generations, and societal expectations were geared toward men taking timely action in such situations.
    Take it a step forward...promoting maturity and responsible behaviors might just have the happy consequence of fewer of these little self important pricks committing these types of crimes.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Attachment 67113378

    I am planning on buying my adult daughter a Mace Pistol. It is capable of firing up to 15 times and up to 25 feet. It could incompacitate for 30-45 minutes. I like it because it is designed like a pistol so there is no doubt which direction to point it as versus the traditional pepper sprays. In this situation within a crowd one is not going to kill anybody if you accidentally hit them.
    Not only does it temporary blind them it is so agonizing their hands are going to be rubbing their eyes.


    Before anyone jumps to it I will admit is weak in a gun to gun battle but in many situations I belive it is superior.
    Actually, I was thinking that it might be dangerous because it looks like a gun. A cop or someone may try to stop her from shooting someone.
    Otherwise, I guess it's a good idea. Maybe a really good idea for someone to have in their home if they didn't like guns. Don't know....
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  10. #120
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Attachment 67113378

    I am planning on buying my adult daughter a Mace Pistol. It is capable of firing up to 15 times and up to 25 feet. It could incompacitate for 30-45 minutes. I like it because it is designed like a pistol so there is no doubt which direction to point it as versus the traditional pepper sprays. In this situation within a crowd one is not going to kill anybody if you accidentally hit them.
    Not only does it temporary blind them it is so agonizing their hands are going to be rubbing their eyes.

    Before anyone jumps to it I will admit is weak in a gun to gun battle but in many situations I belive it is superior.

    I suppose it is better than nothing. I'd just caution that not all perps are incapacitated by pepperspray, nor is such incapacitation instantaneous.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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