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Thread: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Well gee... I think it just as likely that he could have saved six innocent lives if he had been right there with Giffords.
    Loughner comes up, shoots Giffords and the armed good guy shoots Loughner dead.
    Yes, so logically everyone should have armed guards, then NO ONE will be shot!
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Yes, so logically everyone should have armed guards, then NO ONE will be shot!
    Ah! The "Rosie O Donell Theorem"...guns are evil, no one should have guns...I would never own a gun because guns are bad and evil...thats why I have an armed bodyguard..."

    It always makes me giggle just a little when people accept as a given that police officers should carry firearms...becasue after all...police officers deal with criminals and criminals are often bad people that carry weapons and hurt people. And who do those criminals typically target...police officers? Why of course not! That would be silly. They typically target citizens. The police usually dont get involved til AFTER the crime has been committed.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Maddow destroys GOP fantasy that more guns equals less violence
    Really? What a poor example. Example of what? That a guy legally armed didn't indiscriminantly shoot someone? Yeah. That.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    The problem here isn't that weapons were used, but a lack of coordination between individual actors in the situation. This sort of thing is precisely the reason that organized people use tactics and communications in a firefight.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-16-11 at 11:41 AM.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooterCease the personal attacks.
    No problem. I no longer see his posts. I'm at peace.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    It seems in almost every argument here at DP it is always the extreme vs the extreme.

    In this case it is the total outlaw of guns vs the desire to arm every citizen.
    I don't believe in outlaw of guns as I would be an outlaw then. I don't believe in arming every citizen because I have seen those same klutz citizens everyday just trying to maneuver a vehicle in traffic.

    With that said there is such a tendency for those to state if only I had been there with my concealed gun. For that to happen and for that person to be standing in such close proximity to the shooter to allow a safe shot is probably near 0.1% of happening. Afterall how many here have ever been at a mass shooting at anytime in their life with the exception of warfare?
    Guys who spend Saturdays at the public firing range want to say they could have stopped it but unless you are battle tested then you are as much am amateur as the boxer who only shadow boxes and has never climbed in the ring.

    We will never be 100% safe from an attacker whether it be by gun or razor utility knife. I think the only bright note is more citizens now may be willing to attack the perp such as most passengers on airplanes now.
    While I AM opposed to using ANY tragedy as a springboard for furthering political gains, I also not only dont think EVERYONE should be armed (with firearms) but in fact believe MANY sane, intelligent individuals have absolutely no business carrying firearms. My own wife for example. Had she been armed in this instance and been present she would not have pulled a weapon on the shooter (scratch that-if she had been present and the shooter had directly expressed an intent to harm her children or granchildren, dood couldnt and wouldnt have been dead enough...and she probably woulodnt have needed a weapon to kill him). However some people in a one on one stuation where a firearm would be needed are much more likely to freeze or hesitate than to defend themselves with a firearm. Much more likely the weapon would then be used against them. Those individuals SHOULD (in my opinion) carry pepper foam...not spray..and be well trained in recognizing individuals that represent harm and appropriate defensive tactics...but should NOT carry guns.

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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Ah! The "Rosie O Donell Theorem"...guns are evil, no one should have guns...I would never own a gun because guns are bad and evil...thats why I have an armed bodyguard..."
    I have never once in my life claimed that people shouldnt have guns. I HAVE said that they shouldnt be allowed to carry them wherever they please.
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    I think he was lucky. Had the others not identified themselves in time and indicated who the shooter was, he might have taken a shot and hurt or killed someone who was innocent. He didnt think, he over-thought and as a result he hesitated. The fact that he DIDN'T have better training saved lives. A truly proficient user of a weapon, any weapon, does not hesitate in it's use. He immediately identifies the most likely target and utilizes his weapon, he doesnt stop to wait for input from everyone else around him.

    This is an example of why I have a problem with civilians carrying weapons around. Several civilians WITHOUT weapons managed to subdue the shooter, unfortunately not until he'd taken several lives, but as I see it there are very rarely times involving an unstable person with a gun that ends ONLY with his death or capture unless law enforcement are involved.
    If you are afraid of guns-as you obviously are-don't own one. don't project your feelings onto others



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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you are afraid of guns-as you obviously are-don't own one. don't project your feelings onto others
    I dont fear firearms, I simply feel that they add a more dangerous factor to public life that I dont feel is necessary.
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    Re: Armed bystander almost shot hero that disarmed AZ shooter

    There are a bazillion what ifs. What if the guy had been present at the start of the attack and thus seen who the shooter was and killed him immediately. There never would have been any mistaken identification.

    What if you couldn't buy any guns? Loughner may have used a knife instead, and thus been able to kill less people.

    What if you couldn't buy any guns? Loughner may have turned to making bombs instead, and thus killed more people.

    What if everyone had a gun? Loughner may have turned to making bombs, and thus killed more people.

    What if everyone had a gun? Loughner may not have acted at all.

    Personally, I think making it easier for people to buy guns is unlikely to deter anyone from doing anything - especially insane people. The only difference is more people will end up dead - probably an equal ratio of criminals to victims. But you can theorize just about any result you want.
    Last edited by Cameron; 01-16-11 at 04:23 PM.

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